3.1: RIP Reflect. Long Live Clear Speed Meta.

This doesnt matter at all. Until they tell us if monster damage has been releveled or not to compensate for burst damage, we won't have a clear picture of what to play.

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Nephalim wrote:

Clearly you've already made up your mind about players who don't think poe is meant to be played like dark souls.

The funny thing is I think this makes your point but not for the reason you think.

Dark Souls, once you have acquired the minimum level of player knowledge, can be completely roflstomped with minimal mechanical skill required. The meta builds are basically idiot proof and you can literally 2 shot many bosses.

But nonetheless, the game has insane replayability -- why and how could that ever be?

The variety of builds is one aspect. But to me the big one is self imposed challenge runs, with no other reward than the joy of accomplishment:

Speedruns, speedruns under certain categories (e.g. sorceror speedruns), soul-level-1 runs, naked runs, Calamity Ring runs, etc etc etc. You make your own challenge and the game is as hard as you want it to be.

POE can follow the same model if the players who want XTREME challenge (tm) weren't so obsessed with dragging everyone down to their slow level. They'd have to give up competitiveness on the XP ladder and economically though, so I am sure it won't happen.

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Filousov wrote:

This is good change. I don't know how many people realise it, but e.g. with Heavy strike you can do 100K physical dmg in single hit. And that basically no way of mitigation armor, etc... helps you when reflected. So you are forced to play as slayer. Now it opens up space for more build diversity making hard hitting builds much more viable.

Literally any good build designed for melee can survive 100k hit into phys reflect, you are not forced to play as anything. Hell, gladiator is more popular than slayer atm and glad offers no extra leech whatsoever. Most popular high tier *melee* build in harbinger was sunder glad with no vaal pact.

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JalapenoBuck wrote:

"

Nephalim wrote:

Clearly you've already made up your mind about players who don't think poe is meant to be played like dark souls.

The funny thing is I think this makes your point but not for the reason you think.

Dark Souls, once you have acquired the minimum level of player knowledge, can be completely roflstomped with minimal mechanical skill required. The meta builds are basically idiot proof and you can literally 2 shot many bosses.

But nonetheless, the game has insane replayability -- why and how could that ever be?

The variety of builds is one aspect. But to me the big one is self imposed challenge runs, with no other reward than the joy of accomplishment:

Speedruns, speedruns under certain categories (e.g. sorceror speedruns), soul-level-1 runs, naked runs, Calamity Ring runs, etc etc etc. You make your own challenge and the game is as hard as you want it to be.

POE can follow the same model if the players who want XTREME challenge (tm) weren't so obsessed with dragging everyone down to their slow level. They'd have to give up competitiveness on the XP ladder and economically though, so I am sure it won't happen.

I absolutely love the dark souls series and have spent hundreds of hours on 1/2 and 3. But it's a different genre of gaming and sadly the challenge factor does not have the replay ability of mindless level 100 grinding. There is a practical limit to how many times you can run through the game naked with a SL1 character but there is less limit on how many chars(and builds) you can grind to 100.

The issue here is the group of people who think poe needs to be dark souls like try to impose their will and design on the rest of of the player base who are the majority.

There is nothing stopping these players from playing poe with self imposed restrictions and making it as dark souls like, challenging, rewarding, mechanical as they like. But that's not enough, they need to remove the option to do anything else. Only a tiny subset of the player base would actually choose the former path as opposed to roflstomp clear speed and somehow, this idea is used as ammunition to belittle clear speeders?

Complaining about reflect rework despite GGG gutting VP is exactly this.

did everybody skip over the part about the reflect change where they will be implementing more and other reflect things?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9moFE-lIUqs

skip to 1:05:30 or so and listen. there will be other reflect mechanics, which is what this change brings the options for, which is great.

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IMBrewmaster wrote:

Literally any good build designed for melee can survive 100k hit into phys reflect, you are not forced to play as anything. Hell, gladiator is more popular than slayer atm and glad offers no extra leech whatsoever. Most popular high tier *melee* build in harbinger was sunder glad with no vaal pact.

Like with what - 7 endurance charges, fortify up and barely make it? It's 10K reflected physical dmg in single hit. What if endu charges are down and fortify too on HC?

So, Where is the Leech for Traps an Mines then?
Or some major rework of Traps and Mines to keep up.
I dont like the clearspeed meta. I want dangerous maps with reflect and deadly shit, that rewards you for the risk you take. Bashing white trash, blue trash and now yellow trash with offscreening glas cannons with one click is not intense. Without a countermechanic against crit dps-machines, you are forced even more to play this way. Hope it wont be as easy to dodge the mortars like the volatiles.

PoE players be like

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Bierhals wrote:

So, Where is the Leech for Traps an Mines then?
Or some major rework of Traps and Mines to keep up.
I dont like the clearspeed meta. I want dangerous maps with reflect and deadly shit, that rewards you for the risk you take. Bashing white trash, blue trash and now yellow trash with offscreening glas cannons with one click is not intense. Without a countermechanic against crit dps-machines, you are forced even more to play this way. Hope it wont be as easy to dodge the mortars like the volatiles.

I'M sorry but how is something you need to react to and avoid, worse design than something you barely even noticed with yugul up

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shaunika90 wrote:

I'm sorry but how is something you need to react to and avoid, worse design than something you barely even noticed with yugul up

That's part of the thing, some players are dealing so much damage that even with Yugul's they're one-shotting themselves. (or just killing themselves very quickly with a few big shots.)

And clearly the fault lies with GGG, not their decision to just spray everything everywhere without looking at what they're attacking or pausing for even a second.