Instant logout is ruining every part of this game

Lab is not the only place where instant logouts matter. And yes, they are root of the problem.
That was explained before, but lets reiterate it once more: because players can logout instantly, GGG has to design fights with one-shot mechanics because otherwise players would be invincible. Pair that with Vaal Pact and there you have it.

Also, crashes are a bad example. While you should consider that crashes are possible they shouldn't be the main point of your design. There are far more important things. Crashes can and should be fixed.
That said, if you crash there is still timeout before you are disconnected. You are not disconnected instantly. It most cases it means you are dead anyways.

5 second log out delay would be awesome. It would improve the game a ton and GGG would have to start designing legitimate boss mechanics instead of high damage 1HKO inescapable hits. I personally think people should be banned for using instant logout mechanics as is. Maybe GGG just wants to be lazy though? I mean it took them forever to make specters persist.

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Sixpackand2guns wrote:

I mean it took them forever to make specters persist.

wait what? specters persist now? I remember seeing something about that but thought it was about later patch.

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silumit wrote:

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Sixpackand2guns wrote:

I mean it took them forever to make specters persist.

wait what? specters persist now? I remember seeing something about that but thought it was about later patch.

They will, and aura selection too in the next 3.0.2 update, which should be available sometime this week...

The two greatest sins of PoE. Legacy gear and instant logouts.

Great that we want to stay in the past for nostalgic reasons, but must we ride with square wheels?

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Xavathos wrote:

The two greatest sins of PoE. Legacy gear and instant logouts.

Great that we want to stay in the past for nostalgic reasons, but must we ride with square wheels?

Because apparently it's more important to pump out MTX and new content than listening to player feedback and fixing the game's problems. I would love for this and many of the other well known and reported problems to be fixed, but honestly, after reading those comments from the devs from four years ago, with people complaining ever since (except those HC nimwits -many SC as well it seems- which defend the use of instant logout since they lack any sort of real skill to do fights without that "mommy save me" button) makes me lose any sort of hope.

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coredumped wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

The two greatest sins of PoE. Legacy gear and instant logouts.

Great that we want to stay in the past for nostalgic reasons, but must we ride with square wheels?

Because apparently it's more important to pump out MTX and new content than listening to player feedback and fixing the game's problems. I would love for this and many of the other well known and reported problems to be fixed, but honestly, after reading those comments from the devs from four years ago, with people complaining ever since (except those HC nimwits -many SC as well it seems- which defend the use of instant logout since they lack any sort of real skill to do fights without that "mommy save me" button) makes me lose any sort of hope.

To be fair, creating new content is very important for the survival of a f2p game. But player retention is equally important, and it seems like GGG don't realize that the reason player retention is so poor in PoE is because in the long run, the game is just not all that fun to play for various reasons. The oneshot meta and its effect on build diversity being one of the bigger reasons.

Can we make them realize? Fuck if I know, but I ain't going down without a fight.

"Instant logout is ruining every part of this game"

Imo its subjective problem, not objective.

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suszterpatt wrote:

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coredumped wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

The two greatest sins of PoE. Legacy gear and instant logouts.

Great that we want to stay in the past for nostalgic reasons, but must we ride with square wheels?

Because apparently it's more important to pump out MTX and new content than listening to player feedback and fixing the game's problems. I would love for this and many of the other well known and reported problems to be fixed, but honestly, after reading those comments from the devs from four years ago, with people complaining ever since (except those HC nimwits -many SC as well it seems- which defend the use of instant logout since they lack any sort of real skill to do fights without that "mommy save me" button) makes me lose any sort of hope.

To be fair, creating new content is very important for the survival of a f2p game. But player retention is equally important, and it seems like GGG don't realize that the reason player retention is so poor in PoE is because in the long run, the game is just not all that fun to play for various reasons. The oneshot meta and its effect on build diversity being one of the bigger reasons.

Can we make them realize? Fuck if I know, but I ain't going down without a fight.

What makes you think player retention is so poor in PoE? Before you make such a statement, I'd like to see the source, stats, data. From what I understand, there were more players on PoE servers at the 3.0 launch than EVER before. People do keep coming back, because of a such content updates.

It's really very simple. With both legacy gear or instant logouts, it's either yes or no. It's there, or it's not. If GGG wants it to be this way for whatever reason they deem worthy, then we'll have two choices again, yes or no. Play or quit.

Like you said, it's been mentioned time and time again. They know about it and they haven't let us in on their opinion on it yet. (unless you count the "yes and no" between Chris and Qarl years back) Until they do, we'll just have to live with it and as time passes, the chance of change is dwindling.

I'd personally rather take a RIP to the face than alt F4 out of any game, even on HC, but that's just what I play games for. I don't find the path of least resistance, because I play to be challenged. Same reason I wouldn't steal candy from a baby.

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Xavathos wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

To be fair, creating new content is very important for the survival of a f2p game. But player retention is equally important, and it seems like GGG don't realize that the reason player retention is so poor in PoE is because in the long run, the game is just not all that fun to play for various reasons. The oneshot meta and its effect on build diversity being one of the bigger reasons.

Can we make them realize? Fuck if I know, but I ain't going down without a fight.

What makes you think player retention is so poor in PoE? Before you make such a statement, I'd like to see the source, stats, data. From what I understand, there were more players on PoE servers at the 3.0 launch than EVER before. People do keep coming back, because of a such content updates.

You need to look no further than Steam's usage statistics. Here, allow me, in clickable diagram form:



For comparison, here's the same 3-month breakdown for 3 other F2P games: Dota 2, Warframe, and Neverwinter. See if you can spot the difference between the shape of these graphs and the PoE graph:


So yeah, I'll say it again. PoE has a lousy retention rate. Yes, player count always skyrockets when a new league or expansion is released. But look at how sharply it trends down afterwards. It went from 10-15k before 3.0 to almost 100k at 3.0 launch, and now we're back to around 25k. That's a 75% dropoff in just two months. Now sure, that's concurrent players, not unique players. It doesn't necessarily mean that all those people quit playing (though many of them undoubtedly did), but it does mean that they're not playing for as long as they used to. And the less time they spend online, the less money they're gonna spend. Attracting a lot of new players is nice, but if you can't keep them around, they'll take their custom elsewhere.

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Xavathos wrote:

It's really very simple. With both legacy gear or instant logouts, it's either yes or no. It's there, or it's not. If GGG wants it to be this way for whatever reason they deem worthy, then we'll have two choices again, yes or no. Play or quit.

I touched on this above, but no. It's not "play or quit". It's "play every day for 5 hours", or "play every other day for an hour", or "play on weekends for 30 mins", etc.

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Xavathos wrote:

Like you said, it's been mentioned time and time again. They know about it and they haven't let us in on their opinion on it yet. (unless you count the "yes and no" between Chris and Qarl years back) Until they do, we'll just have to live with it and as time passes, the chance of change is dwindling.

Well, call me naive, but I still think we can make GGG see reason. If anything, the fact that we have years of history behind us should give us additional perspective and evidence that some things just aren't working the way they expected.

In fact, wouldn't it be kind of arrogant of anyone to think that every design choice they made years ago will have stood the test of time forever?

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Xavathos wrote:

I'd personally rather take a RIP to the face than alt F4 out of any game, even on HC, but that's just what I play games for. I don't find the path of least resistance, because I play to be challenged. Same reason I wouldn't steal candy from a baby.

I'm with you on that. One of the reasons I play softcore is because I enjoy a challenge more than I enjoy "winning". And if I was playing a different, better balanced game than the instalog crowd is playing, I would have no problems. But sadly, we all play the same game, and the existence of instant logouts poisons my experience via the metagame it spawns.