[Sept 18] PvP

Maybe ,this week they will reveal us some detail information about pvp.Becouse before one month ,Jonathan says they will start working on pvp in next 1-2 weeeks.Soo i think they will have something big for us ,just wait and patience.

I think the manifesto eventually needs to talk about the mechanism by which GGG intends to battle the bottleneck issue found in other open-world PvP systems.

Players will often camp bottlenecks, particularly at loading points where a player can load in and show up dead on the other side before they are able to do anything.

Arenas were built expressedly to avoid this bottleneck issue in open worlds, however GGG intends to implement Cut-Throat mode, which effectively demands significant changes to the zoning system.

doesn't the grace period solve this?

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dust7 wrote:

doesn't the grace period solve this?

The grace period if implemented as a timer function leads to the problem of going over the timer period with graphical loading times for some users. Although this could be solved by making it a very very long time.

Even given that you won't get slaughtered immediately, it does nothing to change the bottleneck mechanic. You cannot have a fair PvP system when you can walk around an unrealistic blind corner into a group waiting there for you.

This would work in open worlds where there are many entrances and exits from every area with no loading screens (which is possible with streaming technology)... but with the way POE works with only 1-2 and rarely 3-4 entrances, I feel they will need to do something else creative to make it work.

In cut-throat, you should not be able to simply alt-f4 out of the game to safety. They need to discuss how they will deal with that in conjunction with bottlenecks and the loading grace period.

In my opinion Hardcore Cut Throat is the actual intended mode of play for the final game; it's certainly the most dynamic and meta-game complete... but I feel that there are significant hurdles to jump.

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zeto wrote:

In my opinion Hardcore Cut Throat is the actual intended mode of play for the final game

Seconded. I was just scanning the thread to make sure someone at least mentions hardcore. Arena battles might be a bit unpopular in hardcore so the pvp modes will take serious consideration. All equipped items drop is an absolute must, the reward for risking your characters life must be as high as the risk.

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cybrim wrote:

Don't be like WoW and make PVP items that make characters invulnerable to things because it makes gameplay suck, unbalanced & overly repetitive in nature.

There is already shocked and frozen immunity.

Here is my take on PvP. I'm speaking theoretically for the record, and not about this specific game.

It is my current belief that the the term Balance is something that doesn't exist, and will never exist in games like these. What do I mean?

Games like these are way too complicated to determine balance. Between talent trees, skill choices, gear choices and the players ability to use the combination of those things optimally, It is literally impossible to determine what variable is the so called " Balance " issue.

In order to balance a game, you must have a reasonable amount of linear variables. This game, and most other rpg games are the antithesis of linear. RPG games are extremely complicated.

When you have a game that is extremely complicated, such as PoE, a players ability to analyze and solve a problem is very difficult. So the next best thing is to blame the problem on an ability aka " QQ XXX ability is overpowered " or " QQ XXX item is overpowered ".

I guess what I don't want to see is constant patches of changes because players complain about balance issues that really don't exist. None of them really understand balance anyway.

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Nolimitation wrote:

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I guess what I don't want to see is constant patches of changes because players complain about balance issues that really don't exist. None of them really understand balance anyway.

Well fairly obviously, nobody wants patches based on issues that don't exist. That would be plainly stupid whether it's a balance issue or any other kind of problem. What the developers should (and no doubt will) do is patch to address problems that do exist, and those can include balance patches.

Yes, games like this are extremely complicated systems. You're quite right to say that it's essentially impossible to reach a state of "perfect balance" in a game of this kind. That doesn't mean no balance issues can exist, nor that those balance issues are impossible to address to any extent. Balancing isn't a pointless pursuit just because it can't really be "completed" - fact is, most of the time, you can still improve the game.

Not taking every stupid "I lost to this, therefore it's overpowered, boo hoo" at face value is of course sensible, but I'm quite sure GGG are smart enough to not do that. Balance is hardly the only part of game development that's complicated and that people will offer badly thought out input into, so the game would be an absolute mess by now if the developers were inclined to act on every idea they see instead of carefully thinking about things.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

fact is, most of the time, you can still improve the game.

This is admirable and I hope GGG adopts this philosophy, my biggest concern are balance changes at the expense of customization.

I've seen this destroy games I used to enjoy playing. It's the very reason I can't stand diablo 3 and probably won't end up playing it.

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Nolimitation wrote:

This is admirable and I hope GGG adopts this philosophy, my biggest concern are balance changes at the expense of customization.

I've seen this destroy games I used to enjoy playing. It's the very reason I can't stand diablo 3 and probably won't end up playing it.

That's all well and good, but there is flexibility to be seen yet in balance.

If GGG took the pokemon route to balancing pvp, where where all players will have their level temporarily reset to let's say, lvl 30/60/90 and have their gear/gems delevelled to accommodate these changes, or use stock equipment/gems if this proves too trying on ggg's/the player's end. All players will only have 30/60/90 passive points + quest reward points to spend in building their character, meaning that they would have to build strategically on the same grounds as their opponent(s), while also providing concrete level milestones to balance the game around.

Ofc I'm only suggesting that this be used for more formal forms of pvp such as arenas or tournaments.