Yo fuck this density nerf.

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painfrais wrote:

Well, yeah, everyone and their mother are going to run open/linear layouts, because doing a maze type one is killing the fun, backtracking is anti-fun, you have to constantly think about where you're going and whatnot. This is guaranteed nobody likes maze layouts, period. Now what's funny is that they can't buff maze layouts, they legit can't buff them, the maze type will limit packsizes based on room size anyways, so short of filling the map entirely with mobs, they can't buff those, all they can do is nerf the rest of the game. Now the problem here is that nobody is ever going to run mazes even if they were fantastic. That's just such a pain to run regardless of build or personality, it's just an annoyance for everyone. So realistically what they did was nerf super end game.

It just ended up being a fix that people didn't like because they were used to massive packsize on an autopilot layout. I can totally understand GGG's point of view, they nerfed endgame. That was the intent, it works, it is just feeling clunky now because a good portion of builds rely on flask charges to do well. Downtime in between packs is fine, you get far more downtime in a maze map, regardless of density anyways. This just feels bad, but it is a quality fix that match their goal of nerfing endgame.

We all can agree that with the sextanting of strand, it was too good, simply too good. Now I would've rather nerfed the atlas itself, making it so you have less sextants around it, and buff the sextanting of undesirable layouts or other valid options to strand, wharf by example. They just went the balls to the wall option of nerfing endgame across the board instead of just nerfing strand in particular. You can't argue that this density change wasn't needed. Seeing people hit 100 within ridiculous amount of time played isn't something desirable for GGG, level 100 is supposed to be the most brutal relentless infinite grind, you aren't supposed to hit 100 ever. 100 should be something somebody get to achieve at the end of a 3 month league, not something that happens within first week of league.

You saw a guy in the turmoil event that got 3 level 100 within a 2 week period, this is absurd. Utterly absurd. He did it in HCSSF too. At one point on his 2nd 100 he opened 50 shaped Coves in the lab, fully red sextanted all of them, on a breach hour and he ran those within the next hour just opening breach one after the other and clearing the map in between, it was straight up insane. He could go down on boss room while a breach was expending, kill boss then go out and finish his breach, it was unreal. I don't think that should be possible. Something had to be done at one point or another, nerfing op builds is just one side of the problem, other sides are map density and xp per level. They all achieve the same goal of slowing down endgame.

You are correct in saying they overnerfed stand in particular. I would've rather nerfed the sextanting rather than making the map only good with a fully sextanted setup. But what is done is done, it works. Maybe that's something they can revisit next league, at some point they are gonna add maps and rework the atlas, it probably will happen then.

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Miská wrote:

See here. Get's shit on face by GGG, still applauds.

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painfrais wrote:

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Miská wrote:

See here. Get's shit on face by GGG, still applauds.

For the record, I would've liked it better if they nerfed experience gain and loot instead, or simply add mob hp. This pack size change affect builds that can chain packs and gain something out of it the most, i.e they indirectly nerfed any rampage builds and flasks builds. I believe the pack size change is overall more balanced and impact the game in the better way, it adds downtime to linear/open layouts which is the bigger downside of maze layouts.

I am merely stating the rationale, if you can't understand why they did what they did, why should they listen to your complaints. Linear layouts are by far my favorite and they nerfed my fun just as much as anybody else, if not more. But I am willing to adapt, and those density changes are only noticeable because we got to experience what the high density life was. We are also coming out of a bunch of leagues/races with absurd density to begin with. You have to understand that those weren't baseline.

I agree with what they did, doesn't matter how they do it, the result will still be the same. Instead of density, they could've nerfed experience and drops, you wouldn't have felt it but the change would've impacted returns and levels the exact same way. Something had to be done, they chose this route, end of story.

Adapt or die.