For the love of god, please, rework DEXTERITY. (Updated)

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__Z__ wrote:

really sorry but 465 hps at level 58 it's absolutely not enough...
this is a true glass cannon... with no shield or a low energy shield it's suicidal and logical that you can be one shot sometimes.
even if you were wearing armor instead of evasion stuff!

glass canon characters are only viable (and they eventually die) with total optimal offensive's stuff.

All I did was build heavy DEX, and now I'm a suicidal glass cannon?

That sounds like a balance problem to me

Also Vulpes, well said. I've seen a few Rangers go the Minion Route for Chaos, and it makes sense. Rangers NEED to invest in DEX more than anybody else, and because Evasion is broken, that means they're basically the most vulnerable class in the game. Also no damage scaling for DEX is also the reason you can't afford to compromise any damage nodes for survivability. For that reason having meatshields available is a godsend, since there's no need to rely on a broken defensive mechanic anymore.

As a duelist, I would do the same thing, except monsters seem like they automatically aggro me whenever I attack them, regardless of if they're fighting a Marauder or a Templar or a Zombie or what. Your version of the evasion gauge is nice too. Really, it's not that hard for them to make a good system, all we need is a visual indicator of when we're in danger and when we're not, just like everyone else has.

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Sev wrote:

Yes but you're not seeing the point, every class has unique survival mechanics for a reason, to make them unique. STR heroes get HP and armor, INT gets Eshield, DEX gets evade.

The problem is that Evade as it's implemented now doesn't do it's job.

No evasion is fine! It's just not fine on it own.

They would still be unique. The main survival mechanic would still be evasion, but you would have some armor to go with it aswell.

I don't think you get it, Sickness. Each class is INTENDED to be able to fully rely on their stat's survival mechanic. The fact that it doesn't work "on it's own" is because it's broken. INT characters are INTENDED to be able to rely fully on Energy Shield, which is why Chaos Inoculation exists. STR characters are INTENDED to be able to rely fully on HP/Armor, which is why Unwavering Stance exists. DEX characters are INTENDED to be able to rely fully on Evasion, which is why Acrobatics exists. However, Evasion is broken, which is why Acrobatics is known as one of the worst skills in the game, and is also why the skill Iron Reflexes exists, so people don't have to deal with broken Evasion on their characters.

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Sev wrote:

I don't think you get it, Sickness. Each class is INTENDED to be able to fully rely on their stat's survival mechanic.

If dex where changed to give armor then they WOULD BE INTENTED TO RELY ON ARMOR AND EVASION.

Yes they would, but they won't do that, because DEX isn't STR.

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Sev wrote:

Yes they would, but they won't do that, because DEX isn't STR.

What are you talking about?
Ofcourse dex isn't strength. Strength doesn't give armor, only HP.

What exactly is it that you want that isn't solved by making dex add armor instead of evasion?

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RabidRabbit wrote:

Nitpick aside, you'd be surprised how ineffective armor is against the higher damage hits of blue/yellow mobs. If a chaos mob hits for ~400 damage, your displayed 75% damage mitigation with 5000 armor rating is actually only cutting 33% of it. The ^0.8 power in the evasion formula makes it more stable - harder to get very high evasion %, but also less gimped by high accuracy hits.

Without getting into the whole thing again (ive made my stance abundantly clear) just wondering why you think certain mobs ignore damage reduction as im fairly sure they dont.

If you meant hat MOC monsters are so boosted that they disregard the simplistic equation on your character sheet then your right, but the same goes for MOC monsters VS evasion. Even if by some miracle a bow user can get around 55% evade without gimping their damage the actual evade chance VS a MOC monster would probably be more like half that.

This is what you dont understand (or dont want to understand I suspect) Its not about saying evasion is crap, or that the others are overpowered. Its just that by and large the other classes can go pure build and not suffer many drawbacks, they wont have to ever invest in any other form of defense if they build their character right.

An evasion based character will have to invest in a secondary form of defense. The fact you even admit that and yet dont see its a problem is frankly baffling. Armour users can function without any block chance or any ES or any evade. Evasion users simply cant do that, they have to have a secondary form of defense to remain viable.

This is further compounded by dex not affecting your damage output in any way which means you are forced to take many +dam nodes, where as a marauder (for example) has no such hard choices to make. If he simply pursues standard damage/att nodes he will naturally get more health and damage at the same time. A ranger will just get a truly measly 1% (in real terms) evade chance per dex node, which ironically is instantly wiped out by going up a level.

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RodHull wrote:

Without getting into the whole thing again (ive made my stance abundantly clear) just wondering why you think certain mobs ignore damage reduction as im fairly sure they dont.

If you meant hat MOC monsters are so boosted that they disregard the simplistic equation on your character sheet then your right, but the same goes for MOC monsters VS evasion. Even if by some miracle a bow user can get around 55% evade without gimping their damage the actual evade chance VS a MOC monster would probably be more like half that.

You seem to be disregarding how Damage Reduction from Armor actually works. The character sheet gives only an ESTIMATION and is by no means absolute. Here is how Damage Reduction works:

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Malice wrote:

Armour / Damage Reduction
Damage Reduction reduces physical damage taken. Elemental damage and damage-over-time are not affected. The amount of damage reduction depends on the defender's armour total, and the attacker's attack damage:

reduction = armour / (armour + 20*damage)

The amount of reduction is capped cannot be more than 75%.

The fact that damage reduction scales with the amount of damage means it is difficult to know exactly how much damage is being reduced, however the maximum effect seems to be capped at around 4-5% of total armour rating.
An easy to remember rule of thumb is that to achieve 50% damage reduction, you will need an armour rating equal to twenty times that of the damage being dealt. For example, to achieve 50% damage reduction against a 100 damage hit, you'll need 2000 armour.

Monsterss in Chaos do a lot more than 100 Damage. Let's say they ONLY do twice that amount, 200 damage. That's quite a conservative number but let's go with it. That means you need a total of 4000 Armor just reduce that damage by 50% or 100 Damage. If the monsters did 400 damage, you would need a whopping 8000 Armor just to only take half of that. But wait.. 8000 armor, you say? Haha, my character sheet says I have 75% Damage Reduction. Your calculations are False!

You seem to think just because your character sheet might say 50% with 2k Armor at lvl 60, that you're reducing ALL physical Damage by half. That is simply not true and if you read how the mechanics actually work, you'd know that.

Not only does Damage Reduction not work the way you think it does, but you also have to take into consideration that Armor does not protect against anything BUT physical damage. Evasion, on the other hand, can protect against EVERYTHING in its own way. Because it protects against everything, you need much more Evasion to get the same %Evade as %Damage Reduction. The same reasoning can generally be seen in local and global mods. Local mods only affect the item they are on and so larger values don't affect the whole as much. Where as global mods affect everything and are generally seen as much smaller values. Armor protects you from only one source and that's why the number is larger. Evasion can protect from all, sure it's a gamble, but that's the nature of the stat.

Pure strength is not viable without resolute technique. Pure int is not viable without chaos innoculation. Guess what, pure dex is not viable without iron reflexes. Now invest in shield block, iron reflexes or other abilities that increase your defence.

That being said, dex adding to crit damage or chance to crit sounds good.

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Angryafrican wrote:

Pure strength is not viable without resolute technique. Pure int is not viable without chaos innoculation. Guess what, pure dex is not viable without iron reflexes. Now invest in shield block, iron reflexes or other abilities that increase your defence.

This a troll post? If it's not, then it is complete nonsense. Even IF that were true, then that's exactly what we're here to change. Because IF dex was only viable with Iron Reflexes then we'd have a major problem on our hands. The same goes for your other examples. I'm not saying things can't be better, but things certainly are not how you claim.