For the love of god, please, rework DEXTERITY. (Updated)
" Right so ok your basing your opinion on your dual claw ranger who has 60% block which is known to be the single best form of armour in the game. Remove your block for a while, try the same character with a bow where he cant block. Now compare that to an identical built marauder but focused on armour. You are totally missing the point, forget block chances from weapons and hybrid armours (they muddy the debate) also forget that we are 'complaining' we arent. We are providing feedback. For all I care GGG could leave evasion as it is and Ill simply not use it, ill just get IR or do a hybrid armour build. I created my two characters to directly compare and contrast two identical (as far as possible) characters, one based on armour only they other based on evasion only. And the armour only character is streets ahead in terms of survivability and ease of play. There just is no contest. Currently pure evasion builds are certainly doable, but I fail to see why you would choose one if this was the live version of the game client and I was actually playing a character I wanted to keep forever. Its inferior to all other combinations and builds of armour bar none - yes even with stun and elemental dodge chances as they really dont factor in at all. Like I said most dangerous ranged mobs or unique monsters have such high accuracy that your evasion is lowered still from its already low starting point. Ask yourself why so few hardcore players want to use evasion?? Is it cause its awesome and fine?? No of course it isn't... its cause its slightly gimped and broken. And for the record you most certainly dont get better returns than armour builds. Using identical numbers to calcuate evasion and damage reduction. Damage reduction is always around 10 to 12 % higher with the exaxt same numbers. Also factor into that - armour mods are more common, armour gear has higher numbers, and its totally ubalanced. My ranger if she takes iron reflexes gets nearly 60% damage reduction. She currently has 42% evasion... yeah thats great returns. " Miss my point much?? My two characters are both built using just offensive passives except they each respectively bought +8% armour (marauder) and +10% evasion (ranger) other than that they are identical. They took no life passives, no other defensive passives at all. This was deliberate to prove a point. Yes you can make evasion work if you gimp your damage output, armour users have no such worries. My marauder has never died, hes barely ever been reduced to less than 35% life and hes wearing sub standard non rare gear and has no defensive passives. My ranger has a whole set of top quality rares, her chest armour is blue but it has extremely high evasion values (almost twice that of my marauders armour) she also has innate dex bonuses and yes she still barely reaches 42% evade, compared to my marauders 55% damage reduction. Sorry but I dont see how thats balanced at all. Im not saying you cant play evasion builds just that to do so you have to make sacrifices elsewhere which other builds do not need to make to reach the same level of survivability. You either need to wear at least one armour piece, or invest in block chance (if melee based) or get iron reflexes. A pure armour wearing marauder doesnt have to make any such choice. | |
" To be perfectly frank, I don't think you have any clue what you're talking about. This hasn't even been about evasion vs armor, it's been about the fact that STR characters get HP naturally, INT characters get Eshield naturally, and DEX characters getting nothing. Hitpoints doesn't just 'stop working', Energy Shield doesn't just 'stop working', evasion does. What do you think would happen to Witches if Energy Shield only blocked 'some' attacks? Or better yet, what if they made one of the possible monster mods 'bypasses energy shield'? Last edited by Sev on Feb 15, 2012, 8:30:52 PM
| |
" Quite right!! Add to that the fact that evasion based gear get less base values, the mods that effect them are lower values, and the equation for working out your evade chance has diminishing returns (unlike damage reduction) and you have a seriously crap form of defense. Its only benefit is its ability to evade elemental attacks... except of course you rarely do evade them what with all the +Acc monsters knocking around... also doesn't energy shield not only defend against elemental attacks but unlike evasion it cannot be bypassed? Last edited by RodHull on Feb 15, 2012, 8:38:20 PM
| |
" Unfamiliar with EHP? Nonphysical damage bypasses armor Spell damage bypasses evasion Chaos damage bypasses energy shield Are we even playing the same game? |
|
|
Eshield CAN by bypassed by Chaos Damage, but I do not believe Chaos Damage exists as a monster mod or that and monster type deals it.
Furthermore Chaos Innoculation makes Eshields protect against that too, so it's a moot point. | |
" " This is why we can't have intelligent discussions about game balance. Last edited by RabidRabbit on Feb 15, 2012, 8:45:41 PM
|
|
" It's like I'm really speaking to someone who doesn't read before her posts! Seriously though, Rabid, Eshield doesn't only block X% of attacks, you know it doesn't work against Chaos damage so you can look out to avoid Chaos damage. (Or you can get Chaos Inoculation and forget the issue entirely) You can't look out to avoid every single type of damage in the game as an Evade character, because as you may well know, every single type of damage in the game beats Evasion outright a certain amount of the time. Last edited by Sev on Feb 15, 2012, 8:54:33 PM
| |
"You haven't a clue what you're talking about. Shadow Fragments deal chaos damage, on top of the fact that their attack is to my knowledge the fastest and longest ranged mob projectile spell in the game. Snakes also attack with weapon chaos damage. "Hey everyone let's pretend Pain Attunement, Eldritch Battery, and vanilla builds don't exist! That'll totally make my point make sense right? | |
|
The problem is with the overall balancing of the defensive stats.
Rabit poking at Evade/dex hybrids taking hits less often and EHP Nonsense is besides the point. EHP varies in cases based on what you are fighting and is never the same, so using it as a value for defense is shaky. The problem I see is this: Str is defensively the best stat, and it has nothing to do with armor. It is because it grants life. ALL other types of defense multiply effective life in any situation, whether it be 0 to whatever reduction % they wind up adding up to. This means STR adds hp to defend against damage, This effectively makes STR better than Int in most situations where chaos damage is involved. And dex isn't even an factor unless it is chaos damage from a non spell source. When's the last time you've seen a marauder running around with added chaos damage :D So I ask, what does dex do? A crappy damage reducing character crutch known as accuracy, and evasion which offers increased survivability against non lethal spikes in damage. Lethal spikes do not however get reduced. This problem is specifically pronounced with a ranger as they have no access to affective hp increases other than hp near the start and those lovely passives near the duelist. And there are better selections for hp boosts near everyone save the witch/templar which have eshield which serves the same damage negating purpose as dex vs any physical hit but helps against spells too. -Meteoric Destiny! Last edited by MDragoon on Feb 15, 2012, 9:11:50 PM
| |
" And snakes/fragments show up in less than 5 areas in the entire game. (not including Maelstrom of course) On top of that, Snakes spawn in relatively small packs most of the time, and Fragments are even more dispersed. It's not like we're talking about Archers or Brittle Mages here where you can walk into a room and instantly have 5+ projectiles fired at you. And hey, if it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure Fragments bypass evasion too. " Pain Attunement, Eldrich Battery, and Vanilla builds exist because Chaos Monsters make up less than 10% of the game, whereas 100% of monsters in the game are capable of hitting through Evasion. |
