For the love of god, please, rework DEXTERITY. (Updated)

"

RabidRabbit wrote:

This is why we can't have intelligent discussions about game balance.

Nice... your going to ignore my entire post because of one small inaccuracy which I even question (wasn't stated as fact) im not trying to win an argument here. Im providing fact based feedback based on a direct expirement of two pure builds (armour vs evasion)

I merely mentioned ES in passing at the end of the post, if you choose to use that as forum argument way of dodging my points then I have nothing more to say to you as you clearly arent making a point, merely trying to win an argument.

"

MDragoon wrote:

EHP varies in cases based on what you are fighting and is never the same, so using it as a value for defense is shaky.

Just need to know your defense bypasses to make EHP useful. Example: EHP from evasion is more useful than equal EHP from armor, for as long as there are no spells that deal physical damage in this game.

"

MDragoon wrote:

Str is defensively the best stat, and it has nothing to do with armor. It is because it grants life.

...and that makes str builds better tanks than dex or int builds. Who would've thought?

Evasion is still very viable as a defensive stat, and better suits dex builds that would get stunned by the post-mitigation damage from armor anyway. Pretty sure I'm not the only one w/ an evasion-based build that's doing fine in chaos.

Players seem to complain when they find that their rangers are marginally more fragile than marauders, which just seems silly.

"

MDragoon wrote:

Lethal spikes do not however get reduced.

I don't think anything protects against lethal spikes... by definition.

Nitpick aside, you'd be surprised how ineffective armor is against the higher damage hits of blue/yellow mobs. If a chaos mob hits for ~400 damage, your displayed 75% damage mitigation with 5000 armor rating is actually only cutting 33% of it. The ^0.8 power in the evasion formula makes it more stable - harder to get very high evasion %, but also less gimped by high accuracy hits.

"

Sev wrote:

What do you think would happen to Witches if Energy Shield only blocked 'some' attacks?

Or better yet, what if they made one of the possible monster mods 'bypasses energy shield'?

"

Sev wrote:

Pain Attunement, Eldrich Battery, and Vanilla builds exist because Chaos Monsters make up less than 10% of the game

So one moment you're saying that having a hole in your defenses is a disaster and now after someone calls you out you're saying it's not a big deal. Nice job flipping your position so fast. And FYI, Fragments have among the best range of any enemy and the absolutely the fastest projectile of any enemy. They can and will hit you from well off screen.

"

whereas 100% of monsters in the game are capable of hitting through Evasion.

I'm not going to argue petty semantics.

I've added a second part to the OP post, go check it out for those who want another wall of text to read. This one is about damage scaling for DEX.

"

RabidRabbit wrote:

Just need to know your defense bypasses to make EHP useful.

Okay.
Hitpoints: Nothing
Armor: Elemental Damage
Energy Shield: Chaos Damage (if Chaos Inooculation: Nothing)
Evasion: Everything

Example: EHP from evasion is more useful than equal EHP from armor, for as long as there are no spells that deal physical damage in this game.
No. This is just factually wrong. You know what will and won't be blocked by armor, you never know if that next attack by that unique Skeleton Archer with Substantial Enhanced Damage aura and Added Frost Damage is going to land.

Furthermore, Evasion is NOT better than HP, and HP is what STR characters get for free.

"

...and that makes str builds better tanks than dex or int builds. Who would've thought?[/spoiler]
Even INT builds make better tanks than DEX builds, that's when you know something's wrong.

Evasion is still very viable as a defensive stat, and better suits dex builds that would get stunned by the post-mitigation damage from armor anyway. Pretty sure I'm not the only one w/ an evasion-based build that's doing fine in chaos.

You're intentionally disregarding the point again. Also, the Hardcore Ladder stats disagree with you.

"

Players seem to complain when they find that their rangers are marginally more fragile than marauders, which just seems silly.

Actually they complain when they find their rangers are significantly more fragile than Witches, but okay.

"

Nitpick aside, you'd be surprised how ineffective armor is against the higher damage hits of blue/yellow mobs. If a chaos mob hits for ~400 damage, your displayed 75% damage mitigation with 5000 armor rating is actually only cutting 33% of it. The ^0.8 power in the evasion formula makes it more stable - harder to get very high evasion %, but also less gimped by high accuracy hits.

33% is a hell of a lot more mitigation than 0%, and STR heroes also get HP on top of their armor, DEX characters get nothing.

"

So one moment you're saying that having a hole in your defenses is a disaster and now after someone calls you out you're saying it's not a big deal. Nice job flipping your position so fast. And FYI, Fragments have among the best range of any enemy and the absolutely the fastest projectile of any enemy. They can and will hit you from well off screen.

And you completely ignored the fact that said monsters appear in less than 5 areas in the entire game. If they released Act 3 and every single area was full of Vipers and Shadow Fragments you can bet your ass Chaos Innoculation would become a hell of a lot more popular, especially in Hardcore where survivability is actually a big deal.

"

I'm not going to argue petty semantics.

You better, because you're trying to argue 2 completely different mechanics as the same thing. Energy Shields are GUARANTEED to absorb non-chaos damage. Evasion does not GUARANTEE anything. You might have a point if there was an indicator on screen that told me if I was going to evade or get hit by the next attack.

"

Sev wrote:

Energy Shield: Chaos Damage (if Chaos Inooculation: Nothing)
Evasion: Everything

Right. Let's pretend that ranged attacks and Damage over time and ele reflect and all those things that energy shield is weak against don't exist, and meanwhile we'll go around spouting nonsense that everything bypasses evasion, because it fits with my argument.

Because you know, by that same argument everything bypasses block making it useless.

Ranged attacks, non-chaos dots, and ele reflect go through Energy Shield?

That's news to me.


Also, Block is not any primary attribute's main survival mechanic,and for good reason. I'm not sure why you would even bring it up.

Oh, and let's not forget that Block requires an absolutely trivial investment in comparison to Evasion or Armor to provide significant damage mitigation as well.

"

Sev wrote:

Ranged attacks, non-chaos dots, and ele reflect go through Energy Shield?

That's news to me.

Consistent damage will negate energy shield's regen. The most common and hard to avoid forms of consistent damage are ranged attack and dots, chaos or otherwise. Furthermore, having high energy shield increases the limit on the amount of reflected damage you can take in a single hit.

You act as though everything is directly comparable and it's not.

"

Also, Block is not any primary attribute's main survival mechanic,and for good reason. I'm not sure why you would even bring it up.

Because it has the same effect as evasion except that it doesn't stop you from being stunned?

"

Oh, and let's not forget that Block requires an absolutely trivial investment in comparison to Evasion or Armor to provide significant damage mitigation as well.

I've brought this up plenty of times, but the devs don't seem to care. I also like how you call it "significant damage mitigation" even though it mitigates damage in the same way as evasion, and so by your definition should be "bypassed by everything".

"

Strill wrote:

Consistent damage will negate energy shield's regen. The most common and hard to avoid forms of consistent damage are ranged attack and dots, chaos or otherwise. Furthermore, having high energy shield increases the limit on the amount of reflected damage you can take in a single hit.

You can avoid being lit on fire, you can avoid projectile fire, you can work around Reflected Damage. You can't, however, avoid randomly not evading.

"

You act as though everything is directly comparable and it's not.

It's a very bad thing when 2 classes' primary means for survival are 'not comparable'.

You can have significant chance-based mitigation, but not if you can't survive it's failure. This is something I've already gone over in the OP.

75% block wouldn't be that great either if it meant 25% of the time you'd die instantly.

"

Sev wrote:

"

Strill wrote:

Consistent damage will negate energy shield's regen. The most common and hard to avoid forms of consistent damage are ranged attack and dots, chaos or otherwise. Furthermore, having high energy shield increases the limit on the amount of reflected damage you can take in a single hit.

You can avoid being lit on fire, you can avoid projectile fire, you can work around Reflected Damage. You can't, however, avoid randomly not evading.

You can't avoid projectile fire when it comes unexpectedly from off the screen. You can't work around reflected damage when you get one-shotted from off the screen.

"

It's a very bad thing when 2 classes' primary means for survival are 'not comparable'.

I said "directly comparable". Each survival mechanic has a variety of pros and cons which you ignore.

Also, what is your HP at? It sounds really low if you're really getting one-shotted.