A new Keystone Passive in 3.0.0: Crimson Dance!

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assamite1 wrote:

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tnemrot wrote:

I think this removes from the bleed identity, even if it does end up making it better.

just like this dude said, this makes bleed somewhat (maybe) better but removes how it works in general also scaling bleed still sucks and its pinned mostly to 2h weapons in 3.0 beta and at the current stage is still insignificiant,so focusing it on your build wont get u much dmg.

It would feel better as a pantheon buff rather than an actual node because it is very effective against bosses who usually do not move.

So bleed wasn't working and you decided to make it poison? WTF is that Keystone? Very uninspired, very disappointing, so very un-GGG-like.

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tnemrot wrote:

I think this removes from the bleed identity, even if it does end up making it better.

I agree.

Since when has the point of keystones been to keep somethings identity? MoM? IR? EB?

This criticism is really triggering me.

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innervation wrote:

Since when has the point of keystones been to keep somethings identity? MoM? IR? EB?

This criticism is really triggering me.

Some of us aren't disappointed with the opposing direction of this keystone. We understand already from past experience that some keystones basically reverse an identity on its head:

We're disappointed with how lazy the keystone appears. It's a stacking DOT. Where have we seen this before?

Poison.

Emberwake.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Another random idea, just based on rule of cool in regards to an advanced form of bleed attack:

Have the bleeds stack to X, deal no initial damage, but after Y seconds, deal significantly extra damage at an accelerated pace.

It'd simulate that moment of uncertainty after a series of killer strikes, the dramatic pause...then SPLOOOOOSH all the money shots.

Sort of like explosive arrow, but with blood and giblets.

Yeah, I watch way too much chanbara. :(

So you mean something like this:

https://youtu.be/qwjV-JtsXZI

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AbdulAlhazred wrote:

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innervation wrote:

Since when has the point of keystones been to keep somethings identity? MoM? IR? EB?

This criticism is really triggering me.

Some of us aren't disappointed with the opposing direction of this keystone. We understand already from past experience that some keystones basically reverse an identity on its head:

We're disappointed with how lazy the keystone appears. It's a stacking DOT. Where have we seen this before?

Poison.

Emberwake.

I know. I mentioned the fair criticisms, power level and not exploring design space. It just blows my mind how out of touch the identity critique is.

If I were to take a shot at the keystone, I might go for something like

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Targets you have recently damaged take 50% more damage from your bleed effects for every 5 seconds they have been bleeding.

I admit Im finding the changes to DoTs abit of a disheartening blow to myself. My highest level character made use of viper strike combined with bleed proccing from weapons for a good while

When I returned actively abit over a month ago I started exploring using the poison support gem, the gladiator bleed/and proc poison on bleed passives, and started experimenting with other attacks to try and make it all blend together better.

Im no uber build expert I just kind of dabble with a concept that sounds fun and do my best to optimize it.

Now all I can do is toss some ideas based on things Ive seen in other games.

In one I recall bleed standard could stack 5 times, then there was a special people could take that was called something like rupture that would cause a spike damage attack that would remove the stacks.

This was popular with the high dps big strength kind of builds.

There was however an alternate route favored by low strength builds. It was a special ability one could take called 1 strike 1 cut. It made it so you only could apply a single bleed, but it would deal 10% of the targets max life per second for 10 seconds. This meant if the target had no self healing it was def dead 10 seconds after being hit.

Some people built cool hit once and move on high dodge low hp kind of characters to make use of this style.

Eventually it got nerfed hard due to pvp QQ. many PvPers tended to build high hp max con builds that combined well with a defensive passive that was absed on ones con. Made builds nearly undying in pvp to most builds. However if they had neglected self healing due to feeling so unvulnerable then a 1 srike 1 cut would often send them running like headless chickens.

I think PoE should consider both high single target strength based and low strength high dex based bleed users viable.

Perhaps get really creative. Like a passive called anatomical expert buried among int that makes bleed buffed by superior intel. One buried in the dex region called death by a thousand cuts that make the total amount of each bleed increase with stacks of bleed things to allow those who dont focus on pure strength to enjoy the bleed ability.

I just know turning it into another stacking dot at the same time dots in general seem to be going through alot of change seems excessive.

I still want to see these builds the devs say can dish out millions of dot damage in seconds because that just blows my mind.

im just buffled about how many untested things they gonna throw into 3.0 .. act9+10 will be a mess new skill gems will be either any blade skill level or blight bleed keystone will do nothing for bleed ignite poison is still garbage even if u specc full into it

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innervation wrote:

Since when has the point of keystones been to keep somethings identity? MoM? IR? EB?

This criticism is really triggering me.

To me, it's less that Bleed is 'losing its identity' with Crimson Dance as it is 'Bleed is being given Poison's identity'.

The thing that made Bleed unique - the heavily increased movement-based damage which could be built around for certain builds - is removed, and is instead replaced with "stacks up to 8 times". A stacking but otherwise static DoT is...exactly what Poison is. Poison is a regular old random fixed-value DoT that stacks. Under Crimson Dance...so is Bleed.

That's sorta bogus.

Mind Over Matter lets your blue bar act like redbar. That changes Mana's identity, yes...to something new that didn't otherwise exist, outside very specific gear. Iron Reflexes turns Evasion into Armor, but does so in a way that allows you to combine the two in ways otherwise unavailable to you, opening up build options. Eldritch Battery, especially in its new incarnation, is also a build-defining thing that changes Energy Shield in ways that allow interesting new builds.

Crimson Dance doesn't do anything a Poison build can't also do. Which blows because there's so many cool ideas for what a Bleeding Keystone could be.

"Sapping Wounds: Enemies deal 10% less damage for each second they've been Bleeding (does not stack past 40%). Bleeding deals no damage."

Sacrifice Bleed damage to allow Bleed to become a strong defensive buff instead, sapping an enemy's strength and enabling players to use Bleed to weaken bosses and act as a shield. Low-damage, high-hitrate builds can use Sapping Wounds in place of Enfeeble or the like to make effective use of Bleed without sacrificing their style.

"Already Dead: Bleeds deal no damage. At the end of a Bleeding effect's duration, enemies take 200% of the total Bleed damage they would've otherwise taken."

OMAI WO SHINDERU. Come on. We all want to see it. The Gladiator's close but it's not the same. Also this would allow for, as mentioned earlier, melee-style Explosive Arrowish builds, or for dramatic-feeling builds where you punch a boss a bunch, then turn around to dodge a slam only to watch the boss explode. Bonus points for doing it with Bringer of Rain so you have to go shirtless.

"Eldritch Claws: Your Spell Damage has a 33% chance to inflict Bleeding. Attacks cannot inflict Bleeding."

Throw a bone to physcasters that get nothing but Poison that's going to blow goats in 3.0.0 anyways, and also allow for interesting interactions with Bloodlust Support. Admittedly this may be better as a unique item than a Keystone, but it's still an intriguing possibility. More so than Crimson Dance currently is.

There's a million cool ideas out there for interesting Bleed mechanics. Most of them are probably better as uniques than as a Keystone, but 'turns Bleeding into weak physical Poison' is not interesting at all. It doesn't light my fire. it doesn't make me want to theorycraft new Crimson Dance builds. Every Bleed-centric build I've ever theorycrafted would avoid Crimson Dance strenuously and just eat the damage penalty against the very small handful of stationary bosses in the game.

Just...sad. I was hoping for some real pop with the new Bleed Keystone. Oh well...