3.0.0 taking away instant logout?

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sidtherat wrote:

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If you reove instant log out, you need to remove any kind of similar spikes basically, having the effects that I mentioned just above.

wrong.

Such argumentation, I am impressed.


You always need to think before going to a dangerous place, because if you don't, you might just get blown up at the slightest mistake.
If you don't play 15k+ ES sponge build of course, but that is getting addressed.

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sidtherat wrote:

then the big smug on the faces of 'HC' players pretending to be HC when in fact all they do is cheat the system. yet they somehow feel superior to casual SCrubs

Actually, there is nothing such as this anymore.
There are however people that are trying to pretend as such, trying to bash HC players for not apparent reason ...
Or maybe the problem lies on their end, of course, and that is much more obvious than they think.
I didn't actually think that you were one of those to be honest, oh well.
It isn't as bad as the previous one from last page but still ...

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The_reporter wrote:

Fruz, if you log out for any of those reasons, you need to play softcore where you belong. HC is for the skilled.

Sid is correct on this one.

Nice flamming there, especially from someone on his third account with a private profile, that barely been plays the game.
But please by all mean, keep entertaining me.

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Fruz wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

"

If you reove instant log out, you need to remove any kind of similar spikes basically, having the effects that I mentioned just above.

wrong.

Such argumentation, I am impressed.


You always need to think before going to a dangerous place, because if you don't, you might just get blown up at the slightest mistake.
If you don't play 15k+ ES sponge build of course, but that is getting addressed.

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sidtherat wrote:

then the big smug on the faces of 'HC' players pretending to be HC when in fact all they do is cheat the system. yet they somehow feel superior to casual SCrubs

Actually, there is nothing such as this anymore.
There are however people that are trying to pretend as such, trying to bash HC players for not apparent reason ...
Or maybe the problem lies on their end, of course, and that is much more obvious than they think.
I didn't actually think that you were one of those to be honest, oh well.
It isn't as bad as the previous one from last page but still ...

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The_reporter wrote:

Fruz, if you log out for any of those reasons, you need to play softcore where you belong. HC is for the skilled.

Sid is correct on this one.

Nice flamming there, especially from someone on his third account with a private profile, that barely been plays the game.
But please by all mean, keep entertaining me.

Stop it with the attitude and keep it civilised please.

It's ok to advocate for the devil, but come on.

Damage spikes used to kill players that are instantly logging out would be toned down in every "stars aligning situation" as to make sure you give every player a chance to react to content and not have the pleasure of experiencing only 0 or 1 states regarding his life status.

Some of us have nothing, and I really mean nothing against HC players, and I dare to remind you that GGG still thinks that they could improve on the performance of PoE so much, that additional graphic options are not required, and that would comprise the client-server communication still, as even predictive got improved several times, even though they added lockstep.

An optimal change, to limit the number of instant log out for a set duration would actually weed out the great HC players from the abusers.

Due to the nature of the Softcore league, an additional log out timer on every disconnect would make players think a bit more like the Hardcore ones, and actually give a @#%^ about their enemeies and treat their encounters more seriously.

When you take all the precautions, even huge lag spikes could be survived by playing "smart" instead of "chickening out", and I still remind you that even Vaal Immortal Call is an official option, heck, due to the numbers of enemies that you can confront in the first 5-15 seconds in a map, there should be no instance where you don't have it ready to save you.

Not to mention that having inescapable boss areas but still permitting to log out or portal out should have the actual limit of 1, just like the whole Labyrinth has, if we're supposed to be fair about it...

The only thing that needs to be put in it's place is the abuse mentality.

Right now, PoE is an abuse fest, but at least double dipping gets addressed, ES vs life gets addressed, so why not address the instant log out abusers, zerging and removing any achievement feeling from reaching 100 in mindnumbing no danger grinds?

PoE has the opportunity to make it's player base improve, and get some increased skillplay, besides the game knowledge and experience that it's players already amass. But for that, where things should get difficult, they should also remain difficult for everyone and reward those that don't use the easy way out by abusing anything that should help immersion, instead of encouraging them to find new ways of breaking it.

I have absolutely no problem with my attitude, I am pointing out people actually throwing rocks at HC players that have not been bothering anyone in the first place.
If you don't find it civilized, you should probably start by asking yourself questions.


Damage reduced in every "star align" situation ?
=> inconsistent, very inconsistent, I personally don't want such band-aids.
And one more time, apart from basically volatile ( in very rare cases already ), situations where you get instantly killed out of the blue are extremely, extremely rare.


GGG could improve performances ?
Of course they could, they always could, what is the link with anything here ?
Seems completely irrelevant.

And now you are starting to say that immortal call should be a requirement for every build basically ??
*sigh*
So much for diversity

And now you are basically bashing people that have reached lvl 100 by saying that it isn't any kind of achievement because of instant logout, yet you have never managed to go that far ( and going until lvl 97 clearly shows that you have at lease tried ).
That's pretty hypocritical here, really.

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Fruz wrote:

I have absolutely no problem with my attitude, I am pointing out people actually throwing rocks at HC players that have not been bothering anyone in the first place.
If you don't find it civilized, you should probably start by asking yourself questions.


Damage reduced in every "star align" situation ?
=> inconsistent, very inconsistent, I personally don't want such band-aids.
And one more time, apart from basically volatile ( in very rare cases already ), situations where you get instantly killed out of the blue are extremely, extremely rare.


GGG could improve performances ?
Of course they could, they always could, what is the link with anything here ?
Seems completely irrelevant.

And now you are starting to say that immortal call should be a requirement for every build basically ??
*sigh*
So much for diversity

And now you are basically bashing people that have reached lvl 100 by saying that it isn't any kind of achievement because of instant logout, yet you have never managed to go that far ( and going until lvl 97 clearly shows that you have at lease tried ).
That's pretty hypocritical here, really.

=)) ROFL =))

My character that reached 97 is a proof that I tried going for 100 in your view? Now, when you could daisy chain easy maps just to get to 100? You seriously misjudge me Fruz.

I openly stated more times than I remember that I played that character (and I still keep playing him from time to time) just to see how far my own test by going higher level solely from master dailies got me. And guess what, it got me up till ~94 (oh, and I still level Leo by doing only the 180 seconds missions - he's at 6 right now). Then the additional EXP penalty hit, and the last 3 levels I actually went dailies + maps on every occasion.

That is a far cry from me targeting actively 100, when 100 doesn't even require you to keep testing yourself versus the "end game" fights.

I could sink a lot of my wealth to buy maps and speed farm them, heck even go party speed farm them to 100, but there is no incentive for me to do that. None at all.

I prefer to take my time and reach 100 in a couple of years, by my own standards, and just farm the highest difficulty maps that I reach on every character.

And let's address the other 3 points raised.

Toning down damage spikes when they would absolutely kill you aka "stars aligning" situations due to a logout timer should be a thing just to give players a chance to react. There should be no instances where auto-attack damage could drop your entire life/ES pool in a hit excepting untankable damage presuming you hit a few thresholds when advancing in the map tiers. Heck, that should be even possible with the instant logout system as it is.

You were advocating that lag is the greatest enemy of HC players and making lag obsolete isn't a factor in the discussion. Fallacious much?

Of course that if the connection/client-server communication requirements of PoE will improve, the entire experience will improve, and instant logout will not be as mandatory as now.

*sigh*

When you have a built in game "cheat" that will keep you alive no matter what, and you can even scale it's duration, to not use it in a hardcore setting where you actively "stack the deck" in your favour to not get killed in any situation, and prefer to abuse the instant logout at any sign of danger, I'm sorry to say, but in my own view, you're a coward that doesn't even try to play the game.

And don't mind if I ask you, what killed you at high level last time, or should I say, what would have killed you if you didn't "chicken your way out" via instant logout? Couldn't you just have used Vaal Immortal Call and TP out?

We should want to address difficulty that reached a point where you could trivialise PoE while playing with only 1 button pushed on the mouse (thanks ES + VP, you won't be missed), and address abuses such as automated logout macros, zerging, and reaching 100 by overpowering subpar content in regards to your character and feel like "gods"...

I'm sorry to say, but that is impossible without some balance that actually forces players to face content that is dangerous and feels deadly enough without instantly one shotting them...

And no one has a gripe with the HC players, I said it over and over, but just with those that abuse a mechanic that was supposed to protect against another problem entirely - connection wise I mean - and limits the gameplay that we could enjoy.

Heck, traps in Labyrinth are %HP based so why couldn't damage on enemies (at least certain ones) get the same treatment, or even ailments getting more use versus players? Well, when you go pew, pew and clear entire screens at once, the only thing that could kill you, and will at times, is a one shot or your own bad play, guess which option we enjoy at the moment...

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sidtherat wrote:

"

If you reove instant log out, you need to remove any kind of similar spikes basically, having the effects that I mentioned just above.

wrong.

what player needs to do is to THINK before engaging if he is fit enough to do it. right now there is no risk: sh.. getting tough? RUN like a chicken


what is pathetic is: you cannot run away from the boss area using the doors (so they do acknowledge the problem of people cheezing content exists) but you can log out? LAME design. 'look how tough i am! except for when i am not (logout)'

then the lame excuses (lag.. surely, suddenly everyone lags now? and yet they play HC? if the internet drops - youll die anyway. so the logouts rarely save from real internet problems)

then the big elephant - these macros.. well, some of them are more like scripts

then the big smug on the faces of 'HC' players pretending to be HC when in fact all they do is cheat the system. yet they somehow feel superior to casual SCrubs


D3 did it right. you make a mistake - you pay for it. the price is high? be more careful next time. in POE - you can make mistakes, you can do irresponsible things, you can chance your way forward - when the sh.. hits the fan, run like a chicken.

it sadly fits the target demographic quite well so it will stay. but it restricts the design space far more than people (ab)using it would like to admit

Logging out is not cheating when it is intended by the head developer himself. You'd be stupid not to use a tool that is readily available to you and considered legal. It's the equivalent of saying trading is cheating. Both are tools that are considered legitimate and legal to use, so why anyone would prevent themselves using it, especially if they are competitively racing to 100 is beyond me.


D3 also has cheat death available to literally every single character, so if that's what you want then go ahead. Advocate that.


I'd prefer a game without a logout mechanic, however you'd have to severely rebalance the entire game's mechanics to do that. Like, almost everything would have to be completely revamped, and I just don't see GGG doing that.

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The_Reporter wrote:

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allbusiness wrote:

Logging out is not cheating when it is intended by the head developer himself. You'd be stupid not to use a tool that is readily available to you and considered legal. It's the equivalent of saying trading is cheating. Both are tools that are considered legitimate and legal to use, so why anyone would prevent themselves using it, especially if they are competitively racing to 100 is beyond me.

If what you say is true, that insta-log macros are intended as an integral 'skill' within the game, then why doesn't GGG include it as part of the UI?

Pretty terrible game design to not have such an important "skill" option available on the skill bar.

There was actual talk of it being added actually, not even kidding.

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The_Reporter wrote:

Over the years, GGG has avoided that one like the plague. I'd be VERY interested to read or watch where this talk occurred if you have the info.

There's no avoiding like the plague, Chris Wilson in 2013 specifically stated that logging out is a legitimate strategy, and then later on GGG has verified that logout macros are legal. None of this is considered cheating by any stretch of the imagination. You would be stupid not to use logout macros if you're playing HC, it's just a mere handicap for no reason at all. It would be like SSFing in a trading league and then complaining that others are 'cheating' by trading.