Melee builds are complete trash

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tinko92 wrote:

Dude, sit down and be quiet.

no

You will have to create your own forums if you want to dictate who is allowed to say what :)

10 mins on a 2mod T15 map is proof enough for anyone who tried the other end of the spectrum. sorry if you cannot accept that

you play legacy so you can try adding beyond to your breaches on a red, rare maps with something more than 2 mods


and please guys - answer me one thing:

if you see 4essence mobs, do you run away or what?

melee character without a spell block (or spell dodge - the same thing really) might just as well run away from these mobs. if it has life regen and map has some form of haste it gets amazingly impossible for melee players (lacerate is not melee, just a reminder)

you ofc know that corrupted essences cannot be leeched from?

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Peterlerock wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

there is no challenge in killing white thrash mobs even in T16 map. it is the difficult content that matters.

There is also no real challenge in killing most bosses of those maps.

So maybe melee is fine?

Here is the first issue. If all the game would offer would be melee it would be fine. Melees can do all content and can be pretty fun. The issue is that you can do all those things easier on a lower budget with a caster. And the problem isn't really limited to Melee vs. Ranged it is actually more regular attackers vs. casters. Scaling damage with a caster is insanely cheap, because all you need is to level the gem. The issue melees have in addition to ranged attackers is the limited amount of multiplying supports, you basically have to go crit to have good scaling, while ranged attackers have slower projectiles and pierce as well.

So Melee in itself is fine, melee compared to what else exists is not so fine.

"

Again, I want challenges and decisions.

When I roll a map with the mods you described, first decision: do I reroll it?
Second: remove my beyond leaguestone if I am afraid of losing XP?

I'm totally fine with the game killing my dude when I stack too much crazy shit at the same time.

Being a viable build does not mean I can take everything the game can throw at me at the same time. Not even the beloved CI builds can. They all die sooner or later.

Hmm... well technically that is true. But all the things CI characters cannot take are easy to avoid (except Vaal DD and Volatiles) and are a general danger. The overall rule is if something kills a CI instant leech char it kills every char. And again CI vs. Life barely has anything todo with Melee vs. Ranged or Casters, because both can be both.

Also to your comment about decision. You could reroll the map or you could remove your beyond leaguestone or you could play a character that can ignore both. And since this decision exists it is not surprising that players choose it.


The thing people confuse here is the issue that is presented. Melee is not bad and improved a lot during the last patches, but there is still a sizeable gap and most of the power for melee has flown into some specific builds which make the most use of the buffs that they got. But one of the big issues melees have is that they don't have a specific melee modifier, there is projectile and spell damage but hardly any melee damage nodes that would make melee builds more flexible.

So overall the topic title with melee being complete trash is not quite the truth anymore, but this doesn't mean there is no room for improvement although the question might be if melees are too weak or casters are too strong.

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tinko92 wrote:

This is logic 101. And you're ready to make yourself look ignorant over something that's not even an opinion. Melee sucks and that's a fact.

Again: No, that isn't a fact. It's nothing but an opinion.

"Melee is fine. Spell is OP. Life is fine. ES is op."
"Spell is fine. Melee sucks. ES is fine. Life sucks."

These describe the same situation, but with different viewpoints.

I want the game to be crazy hard.
You (I guess) want the game easier.

I want mistakes to be punished with death. Always. I want players to die.
You (I guess) want "consistency" or even "immortality".

I'd be happy if there was only one person on the whole server who ever beat a guardian on a specific hard mod roll deathless. If it were pretty much impossible to kill Shaper in HC. If map mods really meant something.

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Emphasy wrote:

The thing people confuse here is the issue that is presented.

Exactly.

It seems like they think we're bashing their builds so they take up the defensive stance.
But that's a ridiculous conclusion, if we were truly bashing their builds then we're also bashing our own builds.

Honestly I have no idea what's up with the "melee is fine" guys. Something is, but I don't know what.


For example, Peterlerock doesn't know that when people say "melee is trash", people mean it in a comparison with ranged.
Same for that adghar poor attention loving guy... "but then people come in with highly exaggerated rhetoric on the other side like ooo melee doesnt exist or ooo melee isnt playable".
I mean, this is all in his head.

He cannot take the information in the form in which it's given to him. So he's actually arguing with himself, with his own made-up arguments.

Guess we have to write "melee is trash in this game compared to ranged" so that we may attempt to reduce the amount of "melee if fine" guys.
Otherwise, by writing just "melee is trash" they will come and say ridiculous stuff like "melee is fine, I'm with my 87 lvl Cleaver doing just fine, did a t15 map and didn't die!".

Talk about inserting nose where it doesn't belong.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1886393/page/5#p14428783

Here's my bit on it:

TL:DR

1. Many melee skills is trash because of inherently all "real melee skills" are either worst versions of newer more shiny skills or just basically auto attacks with some flavor that could easily be replaced by any other mechanic/items/effects in the game. Glacial hammer is pointless since I can just turn on hate aura.

2. I would only play the BEST melee attack for single target damage because all of them are basically the same, so why bother having such a large selection? Why would I do anything else other than molten strike for single target?

3. Melee vs Ranged is inherently a dishonest discussion since there are 0 nuisances compared to other games like dark souls were melee and range have actual weight/mechanics/ect to be considered legit different type of playstyles. If you swing a sword, axe or mace it literally just an animation playing. Your character is just an accumulation of similar stats without cooldowns (or other balancing mechanics). So by logic basic auto attacks type attacks are literally the worst.

4. Melee or Ranged ITSELF (as in the distance you have to attack the monster from) is yet again a dishonest discussion because there are meta/extremely successful builds that can play from all ranges including just facetanking the boss right in his armpits. But we ignore this because all other close ranged abilities aren't "True melee" because we are basically only focusing on shit abilities in point 1 and 2.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

Again: No, that isn't a fact. It's nothing but an opinion.

"Melee is fine. Spell is OP. Life is fine. ES is op."
"Spell is fine. Melee sucks. ES is fine. Life sucks."

These describe the same situation, but with different viewpoints.

Look man. There is a thing called PoE which is why we have this forum on which you're arguing as if the actual game doesn't exist and it's all about opinions.

If I say that Glacial Hammer is trash. It's not an opinion. It really is trash compared to the other stuff.

Same goes with melee.


What you're saying is an opinion. This is an opinion:

"

I want the game to be crazy hard.
You (I guess) want the game easier.

You want the game to be crazy hard. Ok. Bringing melee on par with ranged and have some actual balance in the game is apparently bad because mister Peterlerock likes game to be crazy hard (despite not even venturing to the hard part lmao).

You guess wrong. No shock there.

"

I want mistakes to be punished with death. Always. I want players to die.
You (I guess) want "consistency" or even "immortality".

Bringing melee up to reasonable and balanced level will somehow eliminate deaths by mistakes. You wanting players to die is an opinion. See how that actually works?

You guess wrong again. I want balance.



And how is bringing balance to the game going against your happiness? And even if it did, who cares?

If you want your challenge simply play to it. Apply passives only to lvl 60, wear only unique items, use only X skill, etc.
Whatever you feel like.

You can actually have what you have now if some balance would kick in. It's pretty logical.

Unless there is more to it and you'd like to impose your opinions and masochistic (but not even that given that you haven't even entered the tough content) preferences on others.

So at the end, what exactly are you trying to say/do here?
Is it boosting the ego with your macho melee characters that don't fear anything on their 86th lvl?
Is it boosting the ego by going against the popular claims, as if you're the better, as if your builds are somehow superior and you don't feel the struggle that others are?


Ridiculous.

"

suszterpatt wrote:

"

Grauthrim wrote:

I'm beginning to give up on this company and this game in general because there are far too many issues about balance that are just never addressed... I doubt they ever will be.

GGG hates melee. Learn it, remember it.

If you want to play PoE, play ranged. If you want to play melee, find another game, cause you won't be getting your fix here.

Yeah, if you want to play melee, play another game - Grim Dawn, Van Helsing, TorchLight2, Titan Quest, etc. All those games managed to achieve decent melee/ranged balance, and melee builds are no worse than ranged ones. Why PoE should be so diferent in that regard?

a long time ago melee had a redeeming feature: natural access to AR and EV (with block in templar and shadow areas)

most dangers were attacks with some elemental spell bosses (temple Piety.. the old days of true horror)

but since 2.0 pretty much every 'big thing' is elemental spell. every new dangerous thing is a damage type melee has only way of handling - spell block/spell dodge (pick one)

stacking classic defences (AR/EV) while nice on paper fails HARD when one is facing stuff that current POE offers (mix beyond with breaches - because WHY NOT!, tackle multi-essenced (and ghosted..) essence mobs - because WHY NOT!) etc etc

melee players (even faux-melee like lacerate, EQ or whatnot) have to face spell damage. they can a) facetank/instaleech back (Mathil's style) or b) run away (by both re-rolling the map mods AND literally running away when odds are bad)

if the build doesnt deal enough damage for (a) then the (b) is the only option


and yes, i can re-roll maps and avoid content that the game offers. i can also do not leave Merc Ledge and call it a game. but i wont.


the game is the same for everybody - we all COMPETE for resources that are generated in the same way. we might like it or not (i certainly dont) but this is the game, these are the rules. the only exception is SSF.

so if one starts this game and on the CHARACTER SELECTION SCREEN one can loose - because there are things A, B, C and D.. one cannot do. then melee is NOT FINE. it can be played in a vacuum and enjoyed. and i did that for years. but compared to other available options (even the non-meta ones) melee is a just not an option anymore. esp the life/AR/EV based one. the game is designed around other character archetypes and AR/EV is not relevant anymore vs end-game and new content in general


Edit: done. lvl 90 on Cleave Jugg. there is no chance in hell it will be ever 91

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tinko92 wrote:

(despite not even venturing to the hard part lmao).
...
(but not even that given that you haven't even entered the tough content)

Just curiuos... where does this come from? What content did you fight that I haven't?

"

Ridiculous.

What triggers me to venture into these threads is not "balance".
I'm aware balance is off (the question is: in what direction should the game go?).

It's people taking claims about life/melee that are far from true.

"life builds cannot even reach 6k without belly/kaom"
"life builds cannot kill Shaper"
"life builds invest 80% of their passive points in defense"
"melee cannot even clear t11"
"melee cannot do this/do that"
"they didn't even put legacy kaom's in reliquary"
...which are just BS.