Why is armor designed this way?

Emphasy, get your rights and lefts sorted out.

Several times now, it's triggering me.

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sidtherat wrote:

both AR and EV have diminishing returns and shouldnt be stacked because it makes very little sense to do so

But armour doesn't have diminishing returns, it has linear return against physical hits with 0% additional phys dr. Each 1k armour will add the same amount of additional physical hits you survive. Just like each 5% hp node.

This is then combined with physical reduction from end charges and then returns skyrocket, they become increasing, not linear.

The problem is how it helps just against physical damage, so stacking just armour will get you killed against any boss with elemental spell.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Emphasy, get your rights and lefts sorted out.

Several times now, it's triggering me.

Well, if he implied the "right side" as in the right side to scale armour, he was right all along...

It bothers me too that instead of just using the "left side of the tree", he's so "right minded"...

Using a basalt is not having 20% phys reduction 100% of the time, this is a temporary buff, and there are many cases where it can run out ( without accounting for Nullifiers ).
You also need to build up the endurance charges, it's already more of an almost permanent effect, but still not completely.

And 7 endurance charges means a significant investment already, it means that you are not taking an extra frenzy/power charge and that you are not building around those to start with ( not speaking about uniques / some specific corrupted items ).
You have to get to 3 different location that give the charges too.

It's also often 2 points per charge = 6 points spend for it.
It's far from being something that everybody does without any sacrifice.


And physical damage is still a threat, as I said earlier, there is a real, big difference between no armour and 5k, or 10k.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Emphasy, get your rights and lefts sorted out.

Several times now, it's triggering me.

Well, if he implied the "right side" as in the correct side to scale armour, he was using a bad choice of words all along by using "right"...

FTFY

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sofocle10000 wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Emphasy, get your rights and lefts sorted out.

Several times now, it's triggering me.

Well, if he implied the "right side" as in the right side to scale armour, he was right all along...

It bothers me too that instead of just using the "left side of the tree", he's so "right minded"...

Uuhmm... yeah I should just say Strength, because I mean right from the perspective of the skill tree, because technically it is mirrored if we look at it :P

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Using a basalt is not having 20% phys reduction 100% of the time, this is a temporary buff, and there are many cases where it can run out ( without accounting for Nullifiers ).
You also need to build up the endurance charges, it's already more of an almost permanent effect, but still not completely.

Well Basalts do have a decent duration and you wouldn't need it all the time. Because big hits don't connect every single time. If you get hit by them every single time you are doing something wrong. And Endurance Charges aren't that hard to get. There are a few singular bosses that are annoying to get charges (like Izaro before he summons skeletons), but most map bosses come with a Blue pack that allows almost instantly getting all the charges.

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It's also often 2 points per charge = 6 points spend for it.
It's far from being something that everybody does without any sacrifice.

First... I never said that it is not a sacrifice. Second there is hardly another defense as efficient as getting endurance charges. Exspecially considering that all charges have decent life clusters close to them.

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And physical damage is still a threat, as I said earlier, there is a real, big difference between no armour and 5k, or 10k.

But there is a total miss of a solution here. Would you want armor to be as effective against big hits as it is against weak hits? Well then armor based character who do use Endurance Charges and Flasks are basically immune to physical damage. Or do you want it to be much less effective against weak hits, which definitly has to happen if it flattened out, which would exspecially hurt melees which have to jump in the middle of groups and right now can mostly ignore those weak auto attacks. Because if you change the formula you affect both ends, yes big hits might be less dangerous, but small hits might be a lot more dangerous.

I don't want anything in particular, I feel that endurance charges are too powerful ( basalt too ), but that armour overall is ok.

The way it works is basically fine at the moment imho, even though what Zeorymer_Of_The_Heavens said on the previous page is a bt worrying to say the least.

The idea of turning armour into flat values could be somwhat nice though, with keeping it effective against small hit and much less against big hits.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

how long ago was this experience? I believe there was a bug where projectile attacks were ignoring the armour from your chest for a while there. I think they fixed it now but Im not 100% sure.

Around 5-7 days ago :/

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Fruz wrote:

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Zeorymer_Of_The_Heavens wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

It's the level then .... look no further.
I'm not completely sure how level interact for damage calculation, but there is definitely something.

I had the same "suspect" as you one time, but founding no proof on forum and wiki, i abandoned this idea. But now that even you have this suspect, i believe that is true, because in my alternate account (Antares) i am leveling an Arc witch, and she is going so fast that with 1-2 levels below mob's one, enemies hit hard. When i gain those 2 levels... it s easy time :/ Btw, even in my poor experience, bone shields (spell totem+skeletons) + frost wall > armor :(

Well it's empirical, I never found anything in the wiki mentioning it either but ....

If you could tell us in couple of level, how you deal with those monsters, that would be great :).

As Snorkle mentioned, there was an armour bug invovling projectiles bypassing the armour coming from the chestpiece.
I think that it got fix one or two months ago, not sure anymore.

Sure, i will tell it :) I repeat: my witch levels fast (Arc is a monster) and with more levels mobs hits softer (3 levels below that of mobs, it's lethal... on par is doable... 3 levels more that of the mobs, is steamrolling on 0 danger kittens). On the other side my juggernaut (lvl 65, checked just now), between slow cwc and unreliable armor, will take some time to level, but I will tell the Results, i promise. Simply, i didn’t expect this situation (44k armor, 9 EC, Arctic armor):

Lvl 75 white Giant skeletons: invincibile

Lvl 75 white Giant skeletons + rare with "allies deal substantial extra phys dmg": 2k out of 4k life Gone in 1 hit

Now i will try adding The Red Trail (10% added phys reduction while stationary) + Bloodgrip for annihilating it's drawback

But really: armor is not safe when it is needed the most :/

i think the biggest problem of armor and eva to some extend is that they dont offer a global defence but a specific defence.

one could pull 50k armor or probably even more and become close to inmune vs phys but the moment you get hit by elemental/chaos all your investment goes pufff and you are screwed.

as long as armor can be bypassed, stacking ES or life will remain the better choice becouse they work vs everything.


may be as a unique with it own set of drawbacks but armor and eva realy need something like this:

lv 1x armor/eva chestpiece

every 10-15k armor: +1 to max ele ress, +10 to chaos ress
every 5k eva: 1% less damage taken.


with the drawback being little to no armor/eva from chest piece.