Why is armor designed this way?

"

Yesu wrote:

You still take 8.7% of their physical damage attack so if you take several number of hits at the same time you can still feel it but nothing that can't be ignored by ur regen or leech. That's true that Fortify and current Arctic armor aren't that strong against phys damage for a high armor char though.

"

Zeorymer_Of_The_Heavens wrote:

"

Yesu wrote:

You still take 8.7% of their physical damage attack so if you take several number of hits at the same time you can still feel it but nothing that can't be ignored by ur regen or leech. That's true that Fortify and current Arctic armor aren't that strong against phys damage for a high armor char though.

Right :/ And for this reason would be fantastic an armor that progressively cuts down damage. Without strange formulas. Only a simple "100 armour nullifies 100 damage, 200 nullifies 200 and so on". Obviously, there should be an adjustment in the numbers of current gear pieces for avoiding things like invincibility against Minotaur slam and similar...

"

DurianMcgregor wrote:

"

Zeorymer_Of_The_Heavens wrote:

"

Yesu wrote:

You still take 8.7% of their physical damage attack so if you take several number of hits at the same time you can still feel it but nothing that can't be ignored by ur regen or leech. That's true that Fortify and current Arctic armor aren't that strong against phys damage for a high armor char though.

Right :/ And for this reason would be fantastic an armor that progressively cuts down damage. Without strange formulas. Only a simple "100 armour nullifies 100 damage, 200 nullifies 200 and so on". Obviously, there should be an adjustment in the numbers of current gear pieces for avoiding things like invincibility against Minotaur slam and similar...

This is basically how armour already works except that it's against physical only. 100 armour negates about 10 physical damage.

"

Yes, but big hits hurt. What about an armor that gives a flat benefit even vs big hits? Obviously the base gear numbers would be tuned to prevent invincibility... but at least a Seriously investment in gear, tree etc like mine should be rewarded more than having to run like a chicken if a rare with increased allies phys is around :/ Just my humile opinion :/

"

Zeorymer_Of_The_Heavens wrote:

"

DurianMcgregor wrote:

This is basically how armour already works except that it's against physical only. 100 armour negates about 10 physical damage.

Yes, but big hits hurt. What about an armor that gives a flat benefit even vs big hits? Obviously the base gear numbers would be tuned to prevent invincibility... but at least a Seriously investment in gear, tree etc like mine should be rewarded more than having to run like a chicken if a rare with increased allies phys is around :/ Just my humile opinion :/

"

Emphasy wrote:

"

Yes, but big hits hurt. What about an armor that gives a flat benefit even vs big hits? Obviously the base gear numbers would be tuned to prevent invincibility... but at least a Seriously investment in gear, tree etc like mine should be rewarded more than having to run like a chicken if a rare with increased allies phys is around :/ Just my humile opinion :/

The thing is it is impossible to find a good number.

Armor could work in two ways:

a) Providing Flat damage reduction. X Armor would prevent Y damage and 10X armor would prevent 10Y damage.

b) Providing fixed mitigation. X Armor would prevent Y% damage (that is basically how armor works for a given amount of damage right now)

Both have issues though. With A you would quickly remove the thread for very small hits or it would do nothing against big hits. Currently armor can easily remove 1k damage from even some of the bigger hits. And actually flat damage reduction would likely be even worse against big hits, because while if you mitigate 500 damage flat you would take 0% damage from small hits and propably still 90% from big hits, so this isn't really an option.

With Option B you are on the other side, if a certain amount of armor always gives you the same mitigation big hits won't be troublesome. If we ignore Flasks it isn't hard to get 20% physical mitigation by using 5 charges. If we add armor to that we might want to cap the reduction at 50% total, so armor should go towards maybe 35% mitigation. In that case a full on armor optimized character would end up with about 70% or so reliable physical mitigation. This character essentially ignores physical damage at this point, because he can boost his mitigation further with a flask. A Juggernaut with 10 Endurance Charges is already mitigating way too much Physical Damage. And it is not hard for him to do that and it isn't even worth it because unless he is a lab runner he might not die to physical damage anyway.

The current system is actually a mix between a) and b) and it isn't too bad. The only issue is that a player cannot rely on it, because you cannot even estimate how much your armor will protect you against an enemy. It is already hard to figure out how much damage enemies do, but having to figure in how effective your armor is shouldn't be part of it.

So I basically would change only two things about armor:

a) Instead of using the actual damage of an enemy, use the damage before damage modifiers are applied. That way armor works the same regardless of your map mods, curses on you or which mods an enemy has (of course unless those specifically affect armor). Right now people have not only to consider that a blue enemy deals more damage than a white, but also that this enemy ignores a larger part of their armor. This would make armor a bit better against tough enemies and in damage stacked maps, while propably weakening it a bit against whites, but not to the degree simple %based mitigation would.

b) Find a way to make it at least do something against weapon based, exspecially melee attacks that deal elemental damage. If a fire sword hits heavy armor it should be better than hitting unprotected parts, but right now it doesn't matter at all. And this would help melees a lot which suffer incredible from elemental based melee attacks they cannot mitigate.

"

DurianMcgregor wrote:

"

Zeorymer_Of_The_Heavens wrote:

"

DurianMcgregor wrote:

This is basically how armour already works except that it's against physical only. 100 armour negates about 10 physical damage.

Yes, but big hits hurt. What about an armor that gives a flat benefit even vs big hits? Obviously the base gear numbers would be tuned to prevent invincibility... but at least a Seriously investment in gear, tree etc like mine should be rewarded more than having to run like a chicken if a rare with increased allies phys is around :/ Just my humile opinion :/

This is literally exactly how it works right now (against physical hits) in practice. The major problem is that it does nothing against elemental damage and most large hits are at least partially elemental.

"

Zeorymer_Of_The_Heavens wrote:

On the other side my juggernaut (lvl 65, checked just now), between slow cwc and unreliable armor, will take some time to level, but I will tell the Results, i promise. Simply, i didn’t expect this situation (44k armor, 9 EC, Arctic armor):

Lvl 75 white Giant skeletons: invincibile

Lvl 75 white Giant skeletons + rare with "allies deal substantial extra phys dmg": 2k out of 4k life Gone in 1 hit

Now i will try adding The Red Trail (10% added phys reduction while stationary) + Bloodgrip for annihilating it's drawback

But really: armor is not safe when it is needed the most :/

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

Zeorymer_Of_The_Heavens wrote:

On the other side my juggernaut (lvl 65, checked just now), between slow cwc and unreliable armor, will take some time to level, but I will tell the Results, i promise. Simply, i didn’t expect this situation (44k armor, 9 EC, Arctic armor):

Lvl 75 white Giant skeletons: invincibile

Lvl 75 white Giant skeletons + rare with "allies deal substantial extra phys dmg": 2k out of 4k life Gone in 1 hit

Now i will try adding The Red Trail (10% added phys reduction while stationary) + Bloodgrip for annihilating it's drawback

But really: armor is not safe when it is needed the most :/

Well, in fairness if youre taking 2k damage from a phys hit with that amount of armour and endurance then you probably would have taken over 7k damage without that stuff, so that was a 1 hit kill for a 0 phys mitigation evasion character even if u had high life.

I would say that your problem isnt reducing physical damage, youve probably already got too much armour at the expense of other stats that will help you out more. Taking 2k damage should not be worrying for you in a lvl75 map, that should be trivial incoming damage that you dont even care about. Part of that is that you shouldnt be in a lvl75 map until you are about lvl82/83, you say youre lvl65, thats merciless dried lake sort of level, not even tier 1 mapping, you got no place being in a lvl75 map.

My most tanky life build has 29k armour with 6 endurance charges and soul of steel. I would even flinch if I took 2k damage. Reason being, lots of life regen, 12k evasion, 42% attack block, fortify, basalt + ToH flasks, 6.6k life, lots of life leech, lots of damage, blind... If I get hit for 2k damage it takes less than 2 seconds to be back to full life without needing a flask. This is the char, bit of an old vid...

http://plays.tv/video/576978a495aa64b946/izzyrun

argus fight is at 2:10, he managed to land 1 shot through my evasion and block, does whatever, 1.5k damage? its nothing. Izzaro, I literally just facetank him with vulnerability on me, I just cyclone through all his big slams etc, I think through all 3 fights he manages to land a total of 1 hit on me, and it does virtually nothing.

29k armour + equiv of 7 endurance, thats what I got going on and even that is excessive, an uneccesary amount of armour and I should probably drop some of it for, well, literally anything else. What you are missing is all that other stuff, not even more reduced phys. Its all about life pool, life regen, evasion, block etc if you feel like attacks are making you scared, and getting levels. Youre fighting monsters that are about 14 levels too high for you, and then dying so you dont get any xp, its pointless. go back to tried lake till you are lvl70 then starting mapping at tier 1 and stay in white tier maps till your about lvl78+.