Trading in-game currencies and goods for some store items with GGG assistance

new wave on internet, ohh :D

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Sarno wrote:

When discussion is stifled it can have a chilling effect where people who disagree with the status quo feel less confident posting and the forum descends into a mere echo chamber.

i hate to break it to you, but this forum has been an echo chamber for 3+ years. and the subreddit turned into one ~ 2 years ago, too.

i agree with your point completely, by the way. but the masses don't follow logic/reason.

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robmafia wrote:

i hate to break it to you, but this forum has been an echo chamber for 3+ years. and the subreddit turned into one ~ 2 years ago, too.

i agree with your point completely, by the way. but the masses don't follow logic/reason.

out of 30 posts of newcomers in this forum i see, there is only one that also includes a sound reason to bolster the argument.

"sound" meaning in the context of suggestions, that it's good for the game as a whole and not only to buff the play style of the op.

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Violander wrote:

Your "gift" excuse is just bonkers. A gift can still hold monetary value. As long as you trade something that has real monetary value for an in-game item, that is RMT.

So what if it's a "gift"? If I "gifted" you $20, and you "gifted" me a Shavs - that is still RMT.

It doesn't have to be actual "money" that you trade me in return for an item, it just has to be something that carries monetary value. It could be a service (me cleaning your house), a good (a bicycle) or a digital good (an MTX).


If it's still not clear enough - then nothing else will be. Good luck with getting banned if you continue this.

Once again. Store goods are not equal to money. You should agree with this point. You cannot sell them. There is not any way to make this. Even support cannot remove any of your store goods because they do not have rights. You bought them - they belong to your account.

This explains why gifting is not equal to RMT.

Official definition of RMT was given by support:

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Also, please be aware that real money transactions, otherwise known as RMT, is against our Terms of Use which can be found here: https://www.pathofexile.com/legal/terms-of-use-and-privacy-policy

Again, REAL MONEY TRANSACTIONS!!! Both players do not do any real money transactions, if they are assisted by support. Support is needed to exclude RMT.

If you are bad with logic, it is your bad. But responce from support is logical. If you want to do smth, what you can do without its help - contact support.

Only REAL MONEY TRANSACTIONS are forbidden. They are steathy and illegal.

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PHJ82 wrote:

so this goes on without being locked...

could some staff plz write in here on this matter and explain what ggg's view is on this.. cuz there seems to be alot of confusion.

this discussion that have started to be a mudfight and dont think Theres anymore to be said on the diffrent sides of the ''hedge'' all just on repeat now...

Could you get out MR 7 challenges done. The discussion is fine and not breaking any rules. You're like the guy who complains about the game and has never given GGG any money. Your opinion is meaningless and not wanted.

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Uranist wrote:

Store goods are not equal to money. You should agree with this point. You cannot sell them.

Irrelevant. They can only be obtained by spending real money. The other person in your scenario is thus spending their real money in exchange for your in-game items. It's RMT.

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Uranist wrote:

This explains why gifting is not equal to RMT.

You seem to believe RMT means a player receiving real money. That isn't true. Please stop arguing something that's false. Not a single person has agreed with your interpretation.

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Uranist wrote:

Again, REAL MONEY TRANSACTIONS!

What, like a player spending REAL MONEY! on stash tabs for you?

RMT.

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Uranist wrote:

Both players do not do any real money transactions, if they are assisted by support.

If support helped you, they would be facilitating and allowing RMT, but it would still be considered RMT. Words mean things. You've demonstrated time after time that you don't understand what the term RMT means. We are literally on page 11 of a thread where not a single person has agreed with you, and you're still arguing the same thing you were in your first post.

Are you actually incapable of accepting you're wrong?

This is a quality thread.

I was'nt going to offer up my 0.02$ but the incredible amount of hate from entitled western millenials started making my head spin.

At 30, I have many western luxuries such as high speed internet, clean water, heating, access to credit afforded to me on account of living in Canada. I have a stable source of income in canadian dollars and can afford to splurge on things which make my gaming time more enjoyable and a better viewing experience.

However, I grew up in a small town in India in a suburb of a metropolitan in a lower middle class family. Grew obsessed with computers and video games (eventually started a tech company). Growing up, I remember playing games for hours (EQ / WoW / Starcraft / C&C / DoTA). One of the common themes I remember from my teenage life was the frustration of being unable to PAY FOR THE THINGS I WANTED; not only due to financial constraints but also as I could not get a credit card till I turned 21 in my home country. Exchange rates were also prohibitive in most cases.

I would pay for my WoW subscription by helping guild-mates through content (Dailies / tanking dungeons / farming mats for them etc.) and in turn they would keep my subscription active with their western credit card. This was the only way I could even PLAY the game. The game and my online friends helped me through bullying, shaming (acne scarred scrawny little kid), death of family etc. etc. and gain confidence.

If OP is honest, he is promoting discussion on the ability to obtain something which he wants while playing a game he clearly enjoys. He does not feel his request is RMT which as others have discussed; in some popular games today is the case; EVE Online being the front-runner.

While his solution brings with it various complications which could derail the economy of any given league should it be overused; it is no reason to start hurling profanities toward the individual.

The traditional definition of RMT itself has become overused these days. It is an archaic term. Many games have systems in place today where in-game currency has little value towards your personal progress. Ergo paying for in-game currency with Real World money yields little benefit. However, in the closed frame of reference talking about PoE exclusively, what OP is suggesting can cause large fluctuations in characters power level (over 9000) on account of ALL gear being trade-able.

So OP, while it may not be RMT to you, many individuals could use such a gifting resource for abuse and tremendously / rapidly fast forward their progress by trading in-game power for Real World money. (A headhunter here, a Shavronne's there, an Onyx here and all of a sudden, you can run T15's with little to no effort getting there)

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facelessman122 wrote:

This is a quality thread.

I know right? I got my popcorn out ages ago. :) It's getting a little stale though at this point... :( <sad panda>

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Sarno wrote:

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Uranist wrote:

Store goods are not equal to money. You should agree with this point. You cannot sell them.

Irrelevant. They can only be obtained by spending real money. The other person in your scenario is thus spending their real money in exchange for your in-game items. It's RMT.

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Uranist wrote:

This explains why gifting is not equal to RMT.

You seem to believe RMT means a player receiving real money. That isn't true. Please stop arguing something that's false. Not a single person has agreed with your interpretation.

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Uranist wrote:

Again, REAL MONEY TRANSACTIONS!

What, like a player spending REAL MONEY! on stash tabs for you?

RMT.

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Uranist wrote:

Both players do not do any real money transactions, if they are assisted by support.

If support helped you, they would be facilitating and allowing RMT, but it would still be considered RMT. Words mean things. You've demonstrated time after time that you don't understand what the term RMT means. We are literally on page 11 of a thread where not a single person has agreed with you, and you're still arguing the same thing you were in your first post.

Are you actually incapable of accepting you're wrong?

1 Other guy buys these goods because of bad exchange rate. To earn the same money you have to work much, much longer. Instead, you ask friend to help you. Is it so bad if I want to save my time? I prefer to play instead of working.
I do not want to pay too much. It is economy. So, is this way illegal? Why must I pay more, if guy from other country can pay less? Less means "less time spent to earn the same amount of money".

2 RMT is by definition is accepting money for in-game things. Direct accepting! You trade items for money.
Gifting is not the same.

3 Again, RMT means you get money for in-game goods. If you didn't get any money - it is not RMT.

4 I used official definition of "REAL MONEY TRANSACTIONS". If you do not agree with this official definition - then do not talk about RMT.

Example from other MMO game. There is time code. Yes, month or 3 month subscription. I have smth I was spending time for. Other player have to spend the same time to get same things. These things do not help him to win. It is not pay-to-win.

2 players make a deal via forum thread. It is legal and legit. Legalize.
But. In the same game people are banned for RMT. These players want real money, so they sell goods on other forums. They do not use official, legal way. This is RMT.

Gift is legal. RMT - illegal. Legality is main difference between gifting and RMT.
Gifting is good for game. RMT isn't.
Game owner can decide what items can be gifted, because it is his right to decide what is good for game.