I want to love POE... please let me be a filthy casual.

"
Orangenova wrote:
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Xtorma wrote:

Nice meme, although I would think twice about putting a pic of yourself online for all to see. Remember...the internet is forever. There are plenty of respec options, they simply require you to play the game, but are completely unnecessary if you are even the least bit intelligent.

If it's Elitist to play the game the way it was designed, then there are a whole lot of elitists running around in every game.



Spicy burn, I'll remember that every person who posts a meme is literally that person.

Also if a game is perfect the way it's designed the first time, why patch it? Why change anything? Why not just be an elitist shit about the game being flawless and that way of playing being the literally only correct way ever-ever.


Nothing is flawless. There is a big difference between a game flaw, and changing a game design choice. Think about the reason why respect orbs are a currency in this game.
"
KAJed wrote:
No, I point out that people are elitist because the response is always the same: "do it my way or don't do it all"

Everyone is very quick to say "the integrity of the game will suffer!"... to which I say "it's possible, but unlikely".

Read the arguments I'm getting and how quickly it deteriorates on their end and you will see what I mean.

And you're right, some people can find the time between kids and family and everything else. I cannot, but I would still love to play and enjoy that time instead of spending the time planning constantly. The game is fun in it's own right without having this as a burden to bear.

Also...I don't really participate in the league events, but when I do I DO take the time to plan out which build I plan on using for it. I'm talking specifically about Standard in this case.


Then do it. I don't understand why you can't just play. Nothing is hindering that. Shit, you basically need zero knowledge, gear, or whatever to play through the "story" portion of the game.

The problem is that you want to play the game casually, but get the rewards/power that comes faster with less casual play and more knowledge. You CAN get everything you want, even casually playing. It is just gonna take you longer. You can make mistakes. You can fuck up your tree. If you do the side quests (which as a more casual player I assume you do), you get plenty of re-spec points to fix your booboos. Playing early content doesn't really require you to have top tier... anything. The most casual players can get through 75% of the content the game has to offer with basically zero investment.

As for "elitists"... Are people really elitists if they are just playing the game the way it was intended? If that makes someone an elitist, then there are an awful lot of them playing PoE...
U MAD?
I'm well aware of these systems in the game, and I'm well aware of the original design intention. That doesn't mean the original design intention is the right choice. The unfortunate truth is that GGG agree with this mentality. Despite the many times this has been brought up. That doesn't mean I can't hope they'll realize they would be more successful without this limitation.

And again, I see the merit of having the game work like that... for the people that want it to work that way. Keeping us fools separate from those who want permanency basically mitigates the problem of gameplay issues.

As someone that at least seems to not simply be attacking, tell me what the detriment is (aside from a bare-metal cost that would, in my mind, be alleviated by the added userbase) to having a secondary base standard that caters to this style of play?

"
Xtorma wrote:

The fact that you are given free respect points, and that respect orbs are a currency type within the game pretty much says to me that planning your build beforehand is integral to the game design philosophy for this game. I am starting to believe that you just are not far enough into the game to realize this.
"
KAJed wrote:
Correct: your opinion doesn't affect my opinion. Why would it? The difference is I know and understand your point. I don't disagree... having a game that has consequences is fantastic and for people who want to play that way: power to you!

Because what you are mistaking for an "opinion" from most of the people responding here are actually "observations" and "facts", things that should if they are compelling and reasonable in fact change your "opinion". Since their content is pretty consistent and you do not wish to accept the "facts" and "observations" people are presenting to you then stop posting because your "opinions" are definitely not going to change the minds of those using reason and logic to approach this discussion.


I have been playing POE on and off since its inception. I am not new to the game. However, this has been something that has been addressed time and time again. Yes, I understand that's not the people they WANT it to focus on. But give me a valid reason why people who want to play the game that way are not allowed to do so?

Because the entire game was designed with a different demographic in mind, one which is happy to play the game as it is, asking the developers to dumb it down so you can keep up, you being a real minority in this case is forcing to the masses to suffer your ineptitude. Also if you are a casual and you want an ARPG where you don't have to think go play D3.

Also... to the one calling this a "troll thread"... you do realize you sound precisely like Trump? IT'S FAKE NEWS. Just because you don't want it doesn't mean other people don't. This is a topic that has come up since the game began.

This is nonsense, no one called this fake news, your opinions are unpopular and have no good basis of argument for why you want the changes you do. You also ignore people who make any attempt to reason with you or explain why your opinions are bad/unpopular. This is why you are labeled a troll, an adequate description.

I don't want to invest 20 hours into a character only to find I screwed him up and need to spend 20 more hours atoning for those mistakes. I also don't want to run through someone's random build just so I can play the game. I don't want to spend 20 hours researching HOW to play the game in order to play the game.

Play D3, its just the kind of lobotomized ARPG you are looking for. You can't have the satisfaction of playing a superior, more complex game without putting in the effort of learning how to play it. Knowledge is power in POE and since you lack the drive to acquire it you consequentially feel unsatisfied with your experience, funny how that works. Ironically if you don't want to put in the effort to learn how to play more effectively, why in the nine hells do you think the developers should put in the effort to cater to someone like you? I mean with your attitude the moment you encounter anything of challenge you would cease support for their company, you are a terrible customer, the kind that needs to be pampered and acknowledged at every step. Also even for a casual player your numbers are bad, terrible even, no one is going design around the side of the spectrum you are on.

The argument that the game is designed this way doesn't mean that that's the way it needs to remain. The design of a game doesn't always dictate the way that people play it. And absolutely this style appears to be sustainable as there appears to be enough support that they continue to create new content which is absolutely fantastic. But opening it up with something like this makes it more accessible.

They are already making changes to make the game as accessible as they are comfortable with, changes that are already alienating their streamers and more hardcore players. What you are asking for is for them to commit business suicide by abandoning their core playerbase and lowering themselves to the level of their competition which they have been stomping so far.

These forums have always been littered with elitists whose argument is simply "if you don't like it leave". Well, no. I won't leave. I am not the only player who holds this opinion. So, why not open it up? Give me a reason beyond "we don't want it".

We aren't elitists, you are a scrub by admittance and neither we nor the developers are obligated to suffer your level of incompetence.


Stop hiding behind forcing the burden of proof onto others in your thread, your cheap discussion tactics are not going to win you any support here. Also lets drop the pretenses, you are here to discuss in the same way you approach the game, you aren't going to put any real effort into having an intelligent discussion, you are going to whine and waste your time and the time of others in the hopes that somehow, magically, the situation is going to resolve the way you want.

Let me use my impressive powers of foresight to give you a glimpse of the future...it won't.
~ I am Wreaclast middle class and proud of it!
~ Poor investment =/= entitlement to compensation.
~ Build smart, build S-mart!
Last edited by Ageless_Emperion on Feb 21, 2017, 3:28:03 PM
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KAJed wrote:
I'm well aware of these systems in the game, and I'm well aware of the original design intention. That doesn't mean the original design intention is the right choice FOR ME. The unfortunate truth is that GGG agree with this mentality. Despite the many times this has been brought up. That doesn't mean I can't hope they'll realize they would be more successful without this limitation.

And again, I see the merit of having the game work like that... for the people that want it to work that way. Keeping us fools separate from those who want permanency basically mitigates the problem of gameplay issues.

As someone that at least seems to not simply be attacking, tell me what the detriment is (aside from a bare-metal cost that would, in my mind, be alleviated by the added userbase) to having a secondary base standard that caters to this style of play?

"
Xtorma wrote:

The fact that you are given free respect points, and that respect orbs are a currency type within the game pretty much says to me that planning your build beforehand is integral to the game design philosophy for this game. I am starting to believe that you just are not far enough into the game to realize this.


The cost is the main hurdle. There is no evidence that a change like this would bring in enough revenue to cover the resource cost. just because you say it "could" does not make it true. The graveyard of dead games is full of titles that made the same assumptions. They could make 10, or 20 new leagues to try and pacify every single playstyle in the known universe, but then they would end up in the same graveyard SWG now rots in.

I will give you some light at the end of a very long tunnel though. Ask any of the loyal SSF supporters how long and hard they argued to get their own league. This is the battle you have ahead of you.
To me the biggest issue your idea poses is that it completely kills the market for leveling gear. Standard is already a sesspool when we are talking about economy. The idea that a player can fully respec their character at anytime (I think that's what we're talking about) really kills the replayability of the game.

Most players in this scenario would level one of every character type and then just respec existing characters to test new skills/builds that arise.

This completely melts the economy for everything that isn't end game gear. In Standard, where economy is already an issue I don't see how this helps anyone.

Ultimately you would get to a point where mid-tier gear no longer sells OR mid-tier gear would be rarer as fewer and fewer players are grinding for that level of gear.

What you pose as a potential "filthy casual" bolt on is more complex than you make it seem.

Drastic changes like what you are suggesting really hurts the economy. So in your world of respecs, what happens with regret orbs? What is the cost of a full respec? Free or some crazy amount of currency?

All of this matters and your idea isn't forumlated fully. Think about all of the potential reactions to your idea and come up with a logical answer to those questions.

For me having respecs (full) becomes a dangerous game because it completely nullifies the need to relevel characters. The issues I posed above become a real threat. Even if you make it 5 exalted orbs for a full respec, players can farm that level of currency extremely quickly with high-level characters.

I dunno...your idea doesn't seem fully thought out past the "I don't have time for this game...please code it so it doesn't take as much of my time". Unfortunately the world doesn't work that way.
Last edited by Prizy on Feb 21, 2017, 3:32:06 PM
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This is nonsense, no one called this fake news, your opinions are unpopular and have no good basis of argument for why you want the changes you do. You also ignore people who make any attempt to reason with you or explain why your opinions are bad/unpopular. This is why you are labeled a troll, an adequate description.


It is not an unpopular opinion. This type of post has existed since the game came out. However the response an treatment of those who would like this is always shot down quite violently. I prefer when a game can cater to both crowds. I don't want to take away the way you play the game.
"
KAJed wrote:
I would argue that the "you can't respec your character" is nothing more than a way to artificially add play time to the game. I don't think that having this limitation actually adds anything to the game.


It adds more than just a time sink, it adds "process" (planing and execution). Since you cant just respec on a whim you have to plan your char carefully. This is especially noticeable in HC, where you have to decide various things: do I pick offense next, defense, resists...? depending on your current gear (speaking from a SSF leveling experience). If you could just respec, all those question become irrelevant and the game more boring and easy.

You could extrapolate your demand further: why even level, why not have 10X or 100X the XP gain, so that more people would reach their goals faster? Because that would invalidate a lot of the game.

Having an additional "casual" league would multiply all the leagues (there will be soon 8!) by two, making them 16. Your best bet is to play in Standard, where you can play a slow long-term grind and respec your chars every three months.
When night falls
She cloaks the world
In impenetrable darkness
I'm content with a lot of the more "hardcore" features of the game such as making passive choices a thoughtful investment or losing experience on death, but there are some features that I think would improve gameplay for people. My main interest is implementing an automated trade system that makes p2p interaction optional rather than mandatory. Leaving your trade experience to the whim of scammers and AFKers is an inconvenience, so making it automated cuts out almost completely. And if you prefer human interaction and haggling, you can still do that.

Making trading more convenient and streamlined would make this perfect for me.
PoE players: Our game has a wide diversity of builds.

Also PoE players: The [league mechanic] doesn't need to be nerfed, you just need to play a [current meta] build!

MFers found strength in their Afflictions. They became reliant on them. I am not so foolish.
Last edited by Pizzarugi on Feb 21, 2017, 4:15:24 PM
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This completely melts the economy for everything that isn't end game gear. In Standard, where economy is already an issue I don't see how this helps anyone.



Totally valid point about the economy, but if it were in a separate baby-standard that's less of an issue. The main argument I'm getting from the office POE guru is that retention would go way down for users, which is definitely a valid point at well. I still think more users would offset this greatly. But of course, because POE is aging, that might be a less true assumption.

Also, my point IS fully thought out. I don't want to change even the standard league because it would affect every single league that every drops back down in to it.
Last edited by KAJed on Feb 21, 2017, 4:14:26 PM

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