I want to love POE... please let me be a filthy casual.

I'm glad to finally see some proper discussion instead of just hate. There are definitely valid points about power creep as they try to push the game's lifetime. I don't think that's necessarily why D3 is so limited in viable builds, I think diablo's problem is there are just so few skills it's very easy to eke out the best build. POE has so many variables and that's why people love it. There are some crazy things you can do!

It's definitely true though, it WILL reduce time to play for some. I still don't think it will result in burnout though due to the sheer number of possibilities. I do think it would open things up more for weird builds which is a good thing.

As to "path of least resistance".... you're right and wrong. If that league is the only place you can do it I think people will use it to figure out builds but not necessarily play there normally. The leagues are amazing and add some awesome variability to the game. Also, a build is great... but if you can't viably get to that in a league (or standard) because the path to that build is dangerous then it may not be viable for league play.

There are so many ways that POE always mitigates a lot of the problems. But, there is still the argument that when leagues pop up or new skills etc that people won't spend the time in a league testing them... they'll just use their trust old casual character.

As I mentioned before, handling those issues would take some serious effort to mitigate the damage it may cause to new content.

Regarding burnout, you might be overestimating the creativity some PoE players have. Even if they can experiment with any number of builds, they might just stick to a select few meta ones with high clear speed or whatever other qualities that really attract them. And once they get a taste for switching around willy-nilly they'll need even more new and powerful stuff to get similar satisfaction as before. Bit like an addiction really. But hopefully such players would be more than balanced out by those who will basically try almost anything and then stick around or even hype up the game more when more mechanics come along that they can tinker with.

First, a joke : in the time I have spent reading this thread, I could have causally level a character to level 10 in Standard.

Joke buildup : Should I continue to do that, casually, for lets say a week, I could have a character levelled up to 70. By that time, I might realize I messed him up completelly.

So I take a week break, then repeat the process, casually. Having two lvl 70 characters now.

In two months, I could have maybe 4 of those already.
In half a year, my account is full of those poor failed souls.

Then, redemption comes to me. Skill reset for all of them.
I really doubt a casual (like me) can go through that fleet of lvl 70 characters with full respec available in three month time. And if the answer is yes, then you can always buy more slots, or, create new account.

Dont get me wrong. What OP is asking DOES make sense to me, however, in my eyes it can be worked around super easily, not justifying the "cost" of creating extra league

When I find the time I do play...and I AM getting it back in to it regardless. Look, I just spent some money last night to get some flair! Despite this request I still want to play the game.

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aldorus wrote:

First, a joke : in the time I have spent reading this thread, I could have causally level a character to level 10 in Standard.

Joke buildup : Should I continue to do that, casually, for lets say a week, I could have a character levelled up to 70. By that time, I might realize I messed him up completelly.

So I take a week break, then repeat the process, casually. Having two lvl 70 characters now.

In two months, I could have maybe 4 of those already.
In half a year, my account is full of those poor failed souls.

Then, redemption comes to me. Skill reset for all of them.
I really doubt a casual (like me) can go through that fleet of lvl 70 characters with full respec available in three month time. And if the answer is yes, then you can always buy more slots, or, create new account.

Dont get me wrong. What OP is asking DOES make sense to me, however, in my eyes it can be worked around super easily, not justifying the "cost" of creating extra league

Kajed its really weird that you quote people underneath your responses to them.

Not really relevant to the discussion but it's kind of odd to me.
It's like getting context after a relevant answer.

Your opinion might be valid, but i still find it extremely unlikely for GGG to pull resources into this request given their design direction and available league's already.(standard being the place where people with very little available time/week can play for an endless amount to still accomplish a character design)

Peace,

-Boem-

Honestly? I think GGG could add an option to just completely respec characters freely, whenever people want to. That in the common leagues.

"Ah, but then people would only play a single character!" - errr, not really. Arguably the main reason for people to play different characters are the temporary leagues. Adding free respecs wouldn't change this.

"But then people would only play a single character within a league!" - not really. Between different starting positions and ascendancies, different classes are more different from each other than when PoE was first released. If you respec a Witch, it's still not going to be the same build as a Marauder would have.

"But a sense of permancy is a must have for ARPGs!" - says who? The same people who say that you must replay the same content three times before reaching end game?

IMO, this is one of those things that people don't want to see changed just because they don't like change. Not because they actually have a good reason to avoid changing it.

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Erasculio wrote:

IMO, this is one of those things that people don't want to see changed just because they don't like change. Not because they actually have a good reason to avoid changing it.

Not really, in the role playing trope it is quite common to be actively punished for performing wrong actions or moving into wrong paths.

Wrong is actually the incorrect therm in this case, choices should have an effect on the outcome or net result of an action. Wrong or right is only attributed after the effects/results are in.

Basically, choices should mater to a player, this results in bad and good game-play experiences.
And turning a bad into a good(by virtue of knowledge and experience) also turns it into a good
play-experience.

For example, it took me a year and a half of serious play to understand the fundamental design choices of this game and how to actively control all of them. It was a rewarding experience and still is to accumulate that knowledge and apply it in-game.

Peace,

-Boem-

Isn't this the point of standard? So you can play casually at whatever pace you feel like?

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Boem wrote:

"

Erasculio wrote:

IMO, this is one of those things that people don't want to see changed just because they don't like change. Not because they actually have a good reason to avoid changing it.

Not really, in the role playing trope it is quite common to be actively punished for performing wrong actions or moving into wrong paths.

Isn't that reply basically saying, "but that's how things have always been, so that's how things should always be"?.

"

Boem wrote:

For example, it took me a year and a half of serious play to understand the fundamental design choices of this game and how to actively control all of them. It was a rewarding experience and still is to accumulate that knowledge and apply it in-game.

But think - if you, before that year and a half, had been given free respects... Would it really have allowed you to make a good character without understanding how the game works? Or would you just have been able to go from one badly designed build to another equally badly designed build, until you finally learned how to play?

Being locked in a build doesn't make PoE complex or hard to master. The fact that PoE is complex and hard to master is what makes it, well, complex and hard to master. Free respecs would be useful for people who like to experiment, but it wouldn't really make the game any less complex than it already is.

Besides, as mentioned in this topic over and over, an experienced player can make a new character and reach high level in a few hours. How different is that from being able to respec? And so, if the option is already in the game, why not go all the way and implement it anyway?

^Because each wrong choice was actively punished in the final design it provoked me to learn what exactly was at the basis of it being a wrong choice.

If a wrong choice is not punished(= free respecs) then there is very little pressure to actually learn where the mistake came from.

And in therms of "meta gaming" free respecs would allow optimal leveling specs to progress and then swap over to optimal farming specs without any opportunity cost, which would influence the meta game considerably.
At the moment there is a choice to be made when leveling and competing in the ladder and the "eventual build" is an active component of making a good start design of your character.

This might be irrelevant for you and players like the OP, but it is very relevant for the competitive aspect of the game.

Peace,

-Boem-