Lightning Strike

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TheRabbit303 wrote:

As with all skills the accuracy and critical chance are only rolled once per attack. Thus either the melee hit and all the projectiles will miss, hit, or hit and crit, never a combination of the above.

This is not true.
Skills make only one critical strike roll, but the same is not true of accuracy checks, nor has it ever been.

Accuracy is checked separately for each target.
Lightning strike has an additional mechanic whereby if the initial melee attack is a hit, the projectiles automatically pass their accuracy checks and hit as well. If the melee attack does not hit (including if it didn't have a target) the projectiles test accuracy as normal against each thing hit.

@UristMcDwarfy: When the projectile collides, it will either pierce, or stop. In either case, it will roll an attack on the target (which may miss), but that won't prevent the projectile ceasing to exist from the collision. The only way for a projectile to move through the target is if it has pierce chance. You can think of it as being hit by the projectile, but managing to evade the damage as it dissipates at you.

Currently "melee damage" increases apply to any damage with a melee weapon, even when dealt via non-melee means, such as a projectile.
This is on the table for investigation, so may change in future.

UPDATE: This is changed in 0.9.12 - "melee" modifiers will not apply to projectiles.

Lightning strike has no effect on drops. Is it possible you had item names showing all the time and hit 'z', turning this off so they weren't visible?

I had a longer response but lost it during the breif period the site was down for the patch, so here's the quick version.

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Baki wrote:

What exactly are melee modifiers?

Pretty much ones which say they apply to "melee damage".

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Baki wrote:

1)Dmg from Str? If yes, will Iron Grip take effect?

Yes, and Yes.

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Baki wrote:

2)One handed Damage Nodes: "x% increased physical Damage with one handed melee weapons"?

No. Lightning Strike's projectiles aren't dealing "melee damage" because they're projectiles, not melee, but they are dealing the damage of your weapon, which is a melee weapon, regardless of how you're using it. This stat is explicitly asking about a property of the weapon used to deal the damage, not the damage itself.

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Baki wrote:

3)Dagger Damage Nodes?

Same as 2

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Baki wrote:

4)Dagger Crit Nodes?

Same as 3

The change was that specifically "Melee Damage" used to mean any damage dealt with a melee weapon, and now means any damage dealt by a melee weapon which isn't projectile damage, because it doesn't make sense for something to be both "projectile damage" and "melee damage".

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UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:

PB should work with the projectiles from lightning strike.

It does, since 0.9.12 which changed how projectiles work.

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UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:

Ground slam I'd classify as ranged, but not projectile.

Ground slam is not ranged. Ranged attacks are those made with Ranged weapons.

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UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:

What weapon is ranged, but not projectile?

Bows and Wands, technically. They fire projectiles, but 'projectile' is not a property of the weapon.
There are ranged weapons (bows, wands) and melee weapons (everything else).
Ranged attacks are made with ranged weapons, and usually, but not always, involve projectiles.
Melee attacks are made with melee weapons or unarmed, and are usually do not involve projectiles.

Projectiles deal projectile damage, and by definition, any damage that is projectile damage is not melee damage - the fact of being projectile damage overrides it coming ultimately from a melee weapon.

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UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:

Hmm,, so, if the melee damage takes the strength bonus, and then the projectiles are based off that and can get it again with iron grip, does that mean that a single 4 str node equals 4% more damage?
Or is even multiplicative?

No. Even if the projectiles dealt both melee and projectile damage, there's still only one bonus, you can't get it twice.
The projectiles deal projectile damage - this is not melee damage and does not benefit from the increased melee damage bonus from strength.
Iron Grip changes the strength bonus to apply to projectile damage as well as melee - this is expanding the list of things that bonus applies to, not making a separate bonus that could stack. With Iron Grip, the bonus from strength will apply to the projectiles.

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Arkatar wrote:

So you're saying the melee and projectile portions of the attack are treated as one when calculating damage?

No? I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I can't connect it to what I've said in any way that makes sense.

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Arkatar wrote:

I was under the impression that the projectile damage was 70% of the melee damage

It's not, and never has been.

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Arkatar wrote:

From what you're saying, it's like projectile damage calculations "remember" that the strength damage modifier was applied

No, it's nothing like that.

Your weapon has base damage.

When calculating damage for the initial hit of lighting strike, that base damage is increased by melee modifiers, because it's a melee hit. That includes the bonus from strength.
It's also increased by all other relevant modifiers (lighnting, elemental, with [insert weapon type], etc.

When calculating damage for the projectiles of lighting strike, that base damage is increased by projectile modifiers, and NOT by melee modifiers, because it's a projectile. That includes the bonus from strength if you have iron grip.
It's also increased by all other relevant modifiers (lighnting, elemental, with [insert weapon type], etc.

There is no "remembering" because the projectile damage is not somehow made out of a previous damage calculation done for melee with a bunch of modifiers that shouldn't apply to projectile damage. Projectile damage cannot be based on melee damage because we can't then apply the projectile damage modifiers - to do so to already-calculated damage would make the additive stacking modifiers into multiplicative ones.

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UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:

That makes a lot more sense now.
So, basically, melee damage mods will not apply, but melee weapon mods will?

I'm assuming you're talking about modifiers like "6% increased physical damage with one-handed melee weapons". In such cases, the wording is technically talking about a property of the weapon, not the damage. This is as opposed to "10% increased melee damage".
If you're wondering why I chose those ones specifically, it's because those are the first two I found in the templar area when I checked the passive tree.

If, for example, you use lightning strike with a one-handed sword, and the projectiles hit something, then "increased melee damage" will not apply, because this is projectile damage, not melee. However, that damage is from a sword, and a sword is a melee weapon, so "increased physical damage with one-handed melee weapons" will apply (and likewise so will "increased damage with swords", etc).

I am not entirely happy with this current situation due to it being potentially confusing, but given how the bonuses are worded, it it the correct behaviour such that both are applied as they say they are.

The melee attack definitely can miss.

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Baristo wrote:

I have been using multistrike with LS+GMP and it was a really nice way to farm end game with a semi-mellee.

From these 2 quotes, and no GGG response/changes on this skill since December 10th 2012, I can believe that multistrike does not nerf the dmg from projectiles. Because it causes the skill to do 40% less Melee Damage.

Can anyone verify this, or come with a way to check it? I could download Fraps and playback etc etc.

Correct, the damage penalty on Multistrike does not apply to the projectiles.
This is an oversight that will be fixed in 0.10.7