Buff More Than Nerf

Spoiler
"
sidtherat wrote:
"
Snorkle_uk wrote:
"
sidtherat wrote:
English is my third language so sorry about that


all good mate, I thought that is what u meant just wasnt sure.



a few things of interest

my crit groundslam marauder, 5,388 life naked, 85% crit chance 130k dps glam + 200k dps heavy strike build







6,500 life evasion crit dagger melee ranger, 150k dps wildstrike with a 5 chaos binos, lightning coil, fully functioning powerful build

Deadeye // Stormblades







block build, 7,550 total lifepool, fully invested physical crit melee mob melter


Gladiator // Bladeflurry






I feel like block is probably stronger than its ever been given youve got 100% of block applies to spells without needing to use lazwar, strides etc that have no hp rolls.



i know it can be done once you have a mirrored (or comparable) weapon. this allows you to spec into only some damage nodes and invest the savings into defences. your wildstrike character is a perfect example - you pick two major dagger wheels + crit multi cluster and.. thats it. almost all the other stuff is defensive. you cannot achieve the same thing with normal gear. jewels - the same story - these are pretty damn sick jewels. same as other items.

lets get back to earth and see how far one can get with normal gear and non-crit build.. because it only confirms what has been known for some time: crit or gtfo. if one wants to get a good survivability one has to pick a damage strategy that is cheap on passives (crit) and get a very good weapon so the %damage nodes from the tree are not needed in such quantities

also: Aegis Aurora is one of the most broken items in the game. we will hear about it A LOT if ES+VP combo is fixed.



that 5.5k+ HP naked marauder. it means ~200% life from the tree alone + A LOT of STR. how much damage one can get without going crit? enough to compete with cheap CI builds? because there is a thing called 'insufficient damage' - damage low enough that mobs fail to die and player continues to be at risk of being overwhelmed. with 'normal' gear/weapon it is very difficult to reach this level (im not talking about 'one-click screen clears') AND to have 5k+ life naked.


life scaling is really a lot harsher than ES. sources are limited. there is no multiplier similar to CI's one. there is no %life craft from eleron. most of the good uniques have no life.

characters built like yours could reach 12k+ ES easily + all the other defensive perks you use keeping the same damage output and utility.


You could get to 5K HP naked, I did with my 96 Jugg, and you just need time regarding damage scaling - by the way, going RT dual wielding Dory with my build nets me a cool 125K dps tooltip on Static Strike when I don't care about Lightning Penetration and about 90K with it, that adds up to a cool >200K with 8 End + 6 Frenzy + Onslaught or >140K with LP so it's doable even with a smaller budget...

Is it easily comparable to ES and it's scaling? No, but it gets things done.

I just feel that they could allow a bit more damage on those namelock skills, while recently hitting the same monster, they could get up to double effectiveness (Weight of the Empire for Heavy Strike had the right idea) to encourage their use as "boss killers"...

Tuning monsters for Crit damage leaves the RT users compelled to resort to broken skills/mechanics/interactions and items to scale their damage to satisfying levels (not talking about instant boss kills) so there should be more tuning and a better way to bring closer this overwhelming gap.
PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"...

Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days...
The game should be hard in the end, if every char could faceroll all the content without any investment. I would not had spend 500$ and 5k hours on this game.

The problem with the current meta is people got this idea that power creeping is how the game should be.. so they build 5k life builds and 1 million dps and exspect things not to 1 shot you.

i am no expert on the matter, but i really think what makes es so strong is all the possibilities to get damage reduction with the help of golems, flask, IC, zombies, endurance charges. You can really achive a high amount and still have a 10->15k ES pool. Which makes armour obsolute.

Think the right approach is to nerf the bottles or the ES. Not buff life.
Last edited by Anubis2108#3783 on Feb 17, 2017, 8:38:11 PM
"
Anubis2108 wrote:
The game should be hard in the end, if every char could faceroll all the content without any investment. I would not had spend 500$ and 5k hours on this game.

The problem with the current meta is people got this idea that power creeping is how the game should be.. so they build 5k life builds and 1 million dps and exspect things not to 1 shot you.

i am no expert on the matter, but i really think what makes es so strong is all the possibilities to get damage reduction with the help of golems, flask, IC, zombies, endurance charges. You can really achive a high amount and still have a 10->15k ES pool. Which makes armour obsolute.

Think the right approach is to nerf the bottles or the ES. Not buff life.



The right approach is to do both. When its possible to get 1k es on a chest, but not 1k life (without legacy gear), something might be a little off. Life deserves to have a buff to put it up to a level where melee specifically can get the damage they need, while also ensuring they have enough life pool as well.


In terms of ES, mechanically no ES build (except like crazy regen tanks that probably do no damage) should be facetanking anything, let alone bosses. GGG nerfed leech in 2.0 as to prevent people from leeching enough on a single target to facetank, yet here we are with ES and the very thing they tried to prevent is still happening.


VP should not be so easily accessible, put it north of duelist inbetween scion and duelist, this makes it have an opportunity cost so people invest further into it. Next adjust GR or VP, or both so they have a higher penalty so you can't leech enough to facetank bosses. This will also in the process make aucities worth something really again, I mean the gloves are worth a fraction of what they should be given the rarity of them.


Armor is and will forever be in this game obsolete, elemental damage, more specifically after death effects are probably one of the biggest killers, if not the biggest killers come endgame. Unless armor can mitigate elemental damage, then its completely worthless to invest into.



The problem is that gear, power, currency and content is all far too easy to access then it should be, doubt that really gets changed to much.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
"
goetzjam wrote:
<...>




The problem is that gear, power, currency and content is all far too easy to access then than it should be, doubt that really gets changed too much.



You finished off by making the point that you and your ilk have been shouting down for years.

Full, free, global, unrestricted trading has killed the game. You were warned, GGG were warned, 3 years ago and hundreds of times since. But oh no. Let's not blame the cause, let's blame everything else that contribute because of the cause.
Casually casual.

Last edited by TheAnuhart#4741 on Feb 18, 2017, 5:18:05 AM
"
guggelhupf wrote:
"
We are also still working out our plans for Energy Shield and related mechanics (and Keystones). Changes to this defence affect Hand of Wisdom and Action builds significantly, and there may not need to be a nerf to Hand of Wisdom and Action if ES and Vaal Pact based build-options are changed significantly.


PLEASE dont nerf ES, instead BUFF Life etc !!!

Analysis: Why We Should Buff More Than Nerf


-10

Stop Immortal grindfest and fix the things for all
Yea, the Immortal Grind-fest... but its still only useful for physical damage. I dont need it , due to 5EC + Basalt + high armour. But, elemental... even on 85% res it hits as hell...
Anyway, life pool is just too small. Usually its ~6k with moderate effort, but reaching 10k is hard. The node after Blood Magic should be 15% MORE life, like it is after CI, and CI should have only 15% more from chest or so... Some aura-bots archives even 25k ES, endgame grinders usually reach 15k easy. Good, that Vaal Discipline will have removed +flat ES on use, that will put some ES players in risk on some fights.

GGG promised to rearrange the defenses on 3.0. I believe, there will be new 80+ life flask and some other solutions. Still missing MoM + old EB =( was fair enough...
Last edited by _Aldheart_#0589 on Feb 26, 2017, 10:22:25 PM
"
TheAnuhart wrote:
"
goetzjam wrote:
<...>




The problem is that gear, power, currency and content is all far too easy to access then than it should be, doubt that really gets changed too much.



You finished off by making the point that you and your ilk have been shouting down for years.

Full, free, global, unrestricted trading has killed the game. You were warned, GGG were warned, 3 years ago and hundreds of times since. But oh no. Let's not blame the cause, let's blame everything else that contribute because of the cause.


Find this post of yours, bonus points if you have it in a thread that I responded to (and clearly read).



Unrestricted trading is fine, its existed since the very start, when I really enjoyed the game. What makes it unfun is when you pair it with so many more mechanics to get items, 6 links, quality gems, high level maps, high level bases, ect ect. I would say everything added in the past year needs to be looked at again for these sort of things (again diviners boxes that play by no rules). Power creep from AC classes that goes unchecked in terms of balance is another issue.

Its clear to me these changes made in the past year or so are 100% for the casual player and the only feedback they've really gotten (aka the numbers) is increasing more and more, this is at the cost of the enjoyment of a player like myself.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
Honestly bro they do buff way more than nerf. When I started this game GG ARC was like 20K DPS. I can get 200K DPS today. It's like this across the board. Two steps buff one step nerf.

I wont be happy with an ES nerf as I've made a thread showing lots of builds it would kill. Like dual wield or staff LL who hangs on by a thread now with measly 7-8K ES. But somethings else will always pop up. Like this. A buff.


Embrace the nerf. Embrace change. Keeps shit interesting.
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep#3474 on Feb 26, 2017, 11:41:17 PM
"
goetzjam wrote:

Unrestricted trading is fine, its existed since the very start, when I really enjoyed the game. What makes it unfun is when you pair it with so many more mechanics to get items, 6 links, quality gems, high level maps, high level bases, ect ect. I would say everything added in the past year needs to be looked at again for these sort of things (again diviners boxes that play by no rules).

I dont mind "more mechanics". The problem for me is that the cumulative quantity is too high. And thats from a SSF perspective. IMO the game would be better if loot quantity would be reduced extremely.
Diviners boxes would be more fun if there would be a balance between "following the area rules" and "not playing by the rules". I do like them though as they improve some of the issues I have with divination cards.

"
goetzjam wrote:
Its clear to me these changes made in the past year or so are 100% for the casual player and the only feedback they've really gotten (aka the numbers) is increasing more and more, this is at the cost of the enjoyment of a player like myself.

Some of those changes were probably made for SSF league addition. Others (excessive loot in uber lab) to "defend" the labyrinth concept. The leveled quality gems in uber lab devalue the normal gem leveling. Its like "cheating the system".
No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
"
Zrevnur wrote:

Some of those changes were probably made for SSF league addition.

Absolutely nothing indicates that.
There has been recently an actual SSF_ladder that might have shown GGG that the SSF community was there and has changed their mind from the opposite opinion : whether or not they should implement a SSF league.

Apart from that, we cannot real tell anything ( or if you have something relevant and significant enough to show .... ).
GGG had always been against SSF so that the community would not get split an penalize players that want to trade and play the economy -> the most important of the game to GGG, nothing indicates otherwise until recently afaik.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info