Remove xp loss on death, replace with xp bonuses for surviving

"

Ceri wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

You are not using logic, you are using fallacies and refusing anybody showing you the logic behind the mechanics.
And the paranoia ... *sigh* do you really feel better thinking that others have nothing better to do than feeding on your misery ? Do you really think that you are that important to them ?
If I had to guess ... nobody cares.

I fail to see any logic in the current death penalty. Sorry I'm not getting my point across. I'm quite used to it by now.

Which is also why I wrote what I did. I'm not paranoid in the least, it was mostly a reaction to how people respond and how little they seem to read what I actually write & the perpetual rehashing of the same nonsensical arguments. Again and again we see people offering counters to those arguments, that are mostly either summarily dismissed, ridiculed or ignored. And the cycle continues.

I am completely certain that I'm absolutely insignificant and don't matter to a single person as an anonymous persona on the Internet - and I'm perfectly fine with that. The only reason I'm even on this forum is that I like the game, and I care a lot about its future. I'm hoping that my opinion matters to the developers, should they happen to see them. Anything else is irrelevant really.

"

Fruz wrote:

Previous points were : 6 portals isn't enough to limit progression if somebody screws up ( because of his own mistake ), and the few issues that are problematic ( volatile, but to a certain extent only, and some technical issues, there might be others that I am forgetting ) are not a reason to remove a core mechanic of the game, they need to have their own "fixes".

I think the main reason I'm frustrated about this now is the problematic issues you list. I seem to die mostly from bullshit things nowadays, and that really demotivates me. As I said earlier, dying due to my own error, that's fine! I've done some silly things while playing tired like we probably all have, and whenever that happens I get mad at myself for sure. Well-deserved punishment, agreed.

But yeah, those random volatile splats at higher levels, random server kicks / client crashes - stuff like that. That's gotta be dealt with somehow.

I agree with the rest of your statement as well. It's not a problem for myself so I haven't paid much thought to it but you may be right that players in general are reckless. I wouldn't know, I only play solo.

Still think the 6 portal-thing is enough, but maybe it's just enough for players like myself. And before anyone tries anything: I don't mean "skilled", but rather careful, slow and inefficient. ;)

"

Ceri wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

Previous points were : 6 portals isn't enough to limit progression if somebody screws up ( because of his own mistake ), and the few issues that are problematic ( volatile, but to a certain extent only, and some technical issues, there might be others that I am forgetting ) are not a reason to remove a core mechanic of the game, they need to have their own "fixes".

I think the main reason I'm frustrated about this now is the problematic issues you list. I seem to die mostly from bullshit things nowadays, and that really demotivates me. As I said earlier, dying due to my own error, that's fine! I've done some silly things while playing tired like we probably all have, and whenever that happens I get mad at myself for sure. Well-deserved punishment, agreed.

But yeah, those random volatile splats at higher levels, random server kicks / client crashes - stuff like that. That's gotta be dealt with somehow.

I agree with the rest of your statement as well. It's not a problem for myself so I haven't paid much thought to it but you may be right that players in general are reckless. I wouldn't know, I only play solo.

Still think the 6 portal-thing is enough, but maybe it's just enough for players like myself. And before anyone tries anything: I don't mean "skilled", but rather careful, slow and inefficient. ;)

Yeah how about that gets dealt with in the proper manner instead of a band-aid solution to softcore only.


6 portals is not enough of a downside, it does not reenforce a penalty that scales with a character that gets better geared, higher level, ect.

"

Ceri wrote:

I think the main reason I'm frustrated about this now is the problematic issues you list. I seem to die mostly from bullshit things nowadays, and that really demotivates me. As I said earlier, dying due to my own error, that's fine! I've done some silly things while playing tired like we probably all have, and whenever that happens I get mad at myself for sure. Well-deserved punishment, agreed.

But yeah, those random volatile splats at higher levels, random server kicks / client crashes - stuff like that. That's gotta be dealt with somehow.

I agree with the rest of your statement as well. It's not a problem for myself so I haven't paid much thought to it but you may be right that players in general are reckless. I wouldn't know, I only play solo.

Still think the 6 portal-thing is enough, but maybe it's just enough for players like myself. And before anyone tries anything: I don't mean "skilled", but rather careful, slow and inefficient. ;)

We are a dying breed, as all PoE players seem to say that "skill" is mandatory for a game that can be played while binging, and our own ideals for "fun" while being careful, slow, inefficient and hoarding every drop - SSF league can't come soon enough, but I'll probably wait until 3.0 to experience the new leveling system - remain obsolete in stark contrast with the abusers that trivialise the game by default leaning on everything opie-op...

This game will remain with issues for years and years, how about they fix those issues before they implement systems that will cause people to ragequit and stop playing if they are not fixed.

Honestly you wk's have it jammed so far up yours that you can't see the light and we hear these backwards reasoned excuses.

It remains that death penalty is not well implemented and causes thousands of ragequits, it is one of the main thing people gets fed up with after playing the game long enough. It severely cripples build diversity. It forces people to give up their character out of sheer frustration, rather than they wanting to try something new which causes the player to step back and blame the game. It also causes players to continue easy braindead safe content rather than pushing the limits of what your build can handle. At best it does what, 2 things now? It functions "well" for maybe 10-15 game levels, and it prevents glass cannons from winning ladder races.

You guys have no good arguments, all you do is allude to those who complain about death penalty to be some soft as hell weaklings that cannot take any resistance in life. You guys have zero idea what you are talking about whatsoever and all your posts is a chirade of braindead statings and caring so much for something that apparently doesn't affect you but you want to take the choice away from everyone else, either that or you just love to punish yourself in a sadistic manner.

And the idea that baddies should get punished.... Being a baddie is in itself a punishment, there is no reason to doubledip on it and make them even feel worse than they are - no one benefits except the ones who feel better because they can see the baddie being even worse in comparison to them. It is not a healthy way to think, you fools. Same goes stopping builds to reach 100. It doesn't matter, if the build is bad that's already the penalty in itself and it will level slower(because death penalty should not be removed entirely) so it cannot compete on ladder, and again.. it will level slower so if misterrandom123 wants to spend twice as long or even more on his non-meta or bad build to level it then he does deserve to be able to do that. This games main forte is characterization, and death penalty heavily undermines it because its unrealistic they will ever balance everything perfectly as all the history of games indicate.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

This game will remain with issues for years and years, how about they fix those issues before they implement systems that will cause people to ragequit and stop playing if they are not fixed.

Honestly you wk's have it jammed so far up yours that you can't see the light and we hear these backwards reasoned excuses.

It remains that death penalty is not well implemented and causes thousands of ragequits, it is one of the main thing people gets fed up with after playing the game long enough. It severely cripples build diversity. It forces people to give up their character out of sheer frustration, rather than they wanting to try something new which causes the player to step back and blame the game. It also causes players to continue easy braindead safe content rather than pushing the limits of what your build can handle.

You guys have no good arguments, all you do is allude to those who complain about death penalty to be some soft as hell weaklings that cannot take any resistance in life. You guys have zero idea what you are talking about whatsoever and all your posts is a chirade of braindead statings and caring so much for something that apparently doesn't affect you.

You just love the idea that baddies should get punished. But being a baddie is in itself a punishment, there is no reason to doubledip on it and make them even feel worse than they are - no one benefits except the ones who feel better because they can see the baddie being even worse in comparison to them. It is not a healthy way to think, you fools. Same goes stopping builds to reach 100. It doesn't matter, if the build is bad that's already the penalty in itself and it will level slower(because death penalty should not be removed entirely) so it cannot compete on ladder, and again.. it will level slower so if misterrandom123 wants to spend twice as long or even more on his non-meta or bad build to level it then he does deserve to be able to do that.

Real life must be so difficult for people like you, that don't just get everything in life handed to you for free, that doesn't punish you for making mistakes, that doesn't allow you to learn from mistakes.

Instead its far better to dumb down the game in every form and fashion possible because people might quit or do quit. Lets start with the lab, dumb that down and make AC points for just killing act bosses you have to do to progress already. Lets give you more XP if you can recover your body similar to d2, no I don't mean recover just what you loss, but give you more because it helps you learn that playing like a moron is fine, it would re-enforce the idea of how you want to play the game. How about lets buff drop rates of everything by 4x or more, lets add cards, which are pieces of items to the game, so that you can build up items easier, lets put them in specific places so we can incense those zones. Naw fuck it lets add boxes that give any card in the game, this will help people to complete sets and get cards for doing a challenge, wait there is no challenge in that, fits the game perfectly then!


Lets get real, you can't possibly be a legit closed beta supporter and think that all of this shit is fine.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Crackmonster wrote:

This game will remain with issues for years and years, how about they fix those issues before they implement systems that will cause people to ragequit and stop playing if they are not fixed.

Honestly you wk's have it jammed so far up yours that you can't see the light and we hear these backwards reasoned excuses.

It remains that death penalty is not well implemented and causes thousands of ragequits, it is one of the main thing people gets fed up with after playing the game long enough. It severely cripples build diversity. It forces people to give up their character out of sheer frustration, rather than they wanting to try something new which causes the player to step back and blame the game. It also causes players to continue easy braindead safe content rather than pushing the limits of what your build can handle.

You guys have no good arguments, all you do is allude to those who complain about death penalty to be some soft as hell weaklings that cannot take any resistance in life. You guys have zero idea what you are talking about whatsoever and all your posts is a chirade of braindead statings and caring so much for something that apparently doesn't affect you.

You just love the idea that baddies should get punished. But being a baddie is in itself a punishment, there is no reason to doubledip on it and make them even feel worse than they are - no one benefits except the ones who feel better because they can see the baddie being even worse in comparison to them. It is not a healthy way to think, you fools. Same goes stopping builds to reach 100. It doesn't matter, if the build is bad that's already the penalty in itself and it will level slower(because death penalty should not be removed entirely) so it cannot compete on ladder, and again.. it will level slower so if misterrandom123 wants to spend twice as long or even more on his non-meta or bad build to level it then he does deserve to be able to do that.

Real life must be so difficult for people like you, that don't just get everything in life handed to you for free, that doesn't punish you for making mistakes, that doesn't allow you to learn from mistakes.

Instead its far better to dumb down the game in every form and fashion possible because people might quit or do quit. Lets start with the lab, dumb that down and make AC points for just killing act bosses you have to do to progress already. Lets give you more XP if you can recover your body similar to d2, no I don't mean recover just what you loss, but give you more because it helps you learn that playing like a moron is fine, it would re-enforce the idea of how you want to play the game. How about lets buff drop rates of everything by 4x or more, lets add cards, which are pieces of items to the game, so that you can build up items easier, lets put them in specific places so we can incense those zones. Naw fuck it lets add boxes that give any card in the game, this will help people to complete sets and get cards for doing a challenge, wait there is no challenge in that, fits the game perfectly then!


Lets get real, you can't possibly be a legit closed beta supporter and think that all of this shit is fine.

Of course not all of that is fine, but why not make all traps destructible but more time consuming than rushing through them; why not stop zerging and paying others to carry you - "git gud or get lost" - and make death penalty increase in size up to deleveling, while fixing bullshit one-shot mechanics; why not make the cards drop only from difficult content, let divination cards and Diviners Boxes follow rules, or at least have those Diviners have epic encounters with really hard enemies?

We can agree that the only challenge the game still holds is related to the amount of time investment that you could provide, everything else is redundant...

What? the truth hurts smallson?

By the way i can guarantee i am more elitist than you are or any of you other tryharding elists in this thread, i am extremely elitist, but that doesn't mean i should turn of my brain so i still answer to logic.

"

You guys have no good arguments, all you do is allude to those who complain about death penalty to be some soft as hell weaklings that cannot take any resistance in life.

You just wanna paint the black and white picture, so you can say "we don't want things that take no effort", but that is not the reality of this situation and your arguments per se are just fallacies.

We humor you by entertaining them, but it's nothing less than logical fallacies in arguing against others' points.

--


If you must know what i would be inclined to believe right now as far as death penalty goes it would be something like this:

Two things. First penalty should not be flat 10%, it should depend on your level and/or the area level. Overall it needs to be reduced somewhat and quite a lot for the last levels.

In addition to that a tombstone system, but a bit different. Whatever monster kills you will get a tombstone above its head, when you kill the monster the tombstone will drop and those players who have lost xp to the monster can then click it to regain half of the xp lost to that monster.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

What? the truth hurts smallson?

By the way i can guarantee i am more elitist than you are or any of you other tryharding elists in this thread, i am extremely elitist, but that doesn't mean i should turn of my brain so i still answer to logic.

"

You guys have no good arguments, all you do is allude to those who complain about death penalty to be some soft as hell weaklings that cannot take any resistance in life.

You just wanna paint the black and white picture, so you can say "we don't want things that take no effort", but that is not the reality of this situation and your arguments per se are just fallacies.

We humor you by entertaining them, but it's nothing less than logical fallacies in arguing against others' points.

--


If you must know what i would be inclined to believe right now as far as death penalty goes it would be something like this:

Two things. First penalty should not be flat 10%, it should depend on your level and/or the area level. Overall it needs to be reduced somewhat and quite a lot for the last levels.

In addition to that a tombstone system, but a bit different. Whatever monster kills you will get a tombstone above its head, when you kill the monster the tombstone will drop and those players who have lost xp to the monster can then click it to regain half of the xp lost to that monster.

If there are 3 forms of progression in ARPG games (likely more but lets just say these 3 main points):


Level
Gear
Power


If level is already to the point where its really just a few points that become difficult if you are prone to making mistakes often, then is that really a bad thing? Builds have to mostly be complete around 80-85 or at least function from that point, so getting the last 5 points should be an upbattle hill and one that becomes more punishing both in terms of time and mistakes you are able to make.


Gear, if gear accessibility is going to be as high as it is now, shouldn't the other 2 things also be put in check so that the game doesn't become trival?


Power, if power is available outside of just gear and regular levels, which it is AC points is just that, pantheon points will be that is well, isn't it even more important that the other two aspects remain harder.


For all of these core things that ARPG games pride themselves on being rewarding experiences, POE gives out a lot for free. It seems more like the game is trying to rival d3, then it is trying to re-create d2. IDK about you, but I didn't give GGG $2000 to make d3, I could just play d3 if thats what I wanted.


Ever single one of these threads are about as useless as discussions on trade. GGG has already made trading easier, GGG has already lessoned the XP penalty on death, yet casual players that are trash want more and more, which is how this game has already passed the breaking point of instead of being a successor to d2, its a rival to d3. As someone already said before, the compromising over time is why this game has become less enjoyable for a player like myself, the clear design choices that introduce mechanics that just power creep the game, makes it less enjoyable for people like me.


I will need to learn to cater my expectations of the game, not to be one I know I can enjoy for years to come, but as a game that is clearly going in a direction for mass audience and people that just care about the short high.


Its disappointing the community is plagued with people that just claim that anyone that wants the game to remain true to its roots is a white knight. If anything I'm the one going against the grain on the design direction of where the game appears to be going and you are the white knight leading teh charge that this more casual version of poe that we see now is the direction GGG should be taking.

As you can see, i do believe in a death penalty, so your absolute example of black and white is irrelevant. You see it comes from learning that the current form of death penalty becomes destructive to game experiences at higher levels, so i am discussing the shade of grey.

These discussions are not useless, i would not be surprised if, outside of people who never really experience the full game, the main reason for stopping for longer periods or ragequitting is death penalty, being forced to become hopeless about a character before you naturally become interested in another.

You also forget something.. it's not just level and gear(of which power is derived) - see in PoE there is great characterization like building the character and the items/gems to use. That is proper quality and sometimes that will grab your attention and keep you entertained, that's the sort of meat that makes this game, not that if you don't play top 10% builds it won't work because arbitrary death penalty exists. What you are thinking like is D3 thinking, i am on a whole other level.

If you don't want to be called white knight i suggest that you do not excuse things with backwards reasoning revealing your emotional ties and bias'.

Make no mistake, i have no interest in a casual scrubfest, was this game becoming that you would see me making a whole different kinds of threads like i do in games with those problems. I have an interest in the best and only the best. The best doesn't scare away bads/casuals with bad systems, it is just best all around and low to high loves it because it is best and has the highest standards.

Which is all you wk's really have, you refuse to understand and keep getting hung up on us just being some kinda suckers that can't handle anything in life and want it served on a platter. You simple do not have any clue what we are saying, and as i said we just entertain you but we know you don't get it in the first place.