Remove xp loss on death, replace with xp bonuses for surviving

U learn to play. There are always instadeath scenarios you have no control over and boom hours of work gone. Should at least make a different league where there is no penalty.

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vio wrote:

no penalty would make leveling bots much easier.

If someone use bots its their choice. Enjoyment of the majority of player shouldn't be punished for action of few.

Anyway, I present my argument on exp lost on death, & as objective as possible.

I believed the intention of GGG is to prevent people from making glass cannon builds, & want penalty so people play balanced character. It is in line with most action games, some form of punishment for failure, so players improve to retake on the tougher content. The design intension is without major flaws, the problem is with the implemention & reality of application.

1st issue is lack of consitency. 10% is a constant number for sure, the problem is 10% at level 10 is massively different from 10% in level 95. So early game, death is painless hence meaningly, as you can easily cover the lost exp within mins, while on high level it could be hours, days worth of work. In typical games, when you died, you may need to restart from a checkpoint (for instance), & the time lost is not scaled base on you character levels. If GGG want player to balance offense/defense, wouldn't it mkae more sense to impliment a system that is consistent throughout the game.

2nd issue is, it isn't working as intended. Instead of either play better, or improve their gears then take on harder content at end levels, many people simply take on the easier contents, & play more safe,inlcude using logout marco....for softcore.
When level bar is at 95%, few people will risk taking on Uber Atzia or shaper with risk of dying. So peole, at least me, will complete a full level, before taking on any tough contents with risk of dying.

Also, when someone reached their cap level (that they either set, or lvl100), the penalty become quite meaningless again, except you may not get enough portal, but that has nothing to so with the 10% penalty lost, just dying.

My suggestion is either
1) lock experience every 20-30min of gameplay, so at worst you lost 30min gamplay, consistency over the leveling, It punishing enough, while not so intimitating that people have to play overly safe (at higher level)

2) Timer upon death like many MP games. The idea is to make you out of action for a set period, so the puishment is inaction, & if you want less downtime, die less.

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Tempada wrote:

XP loss on death is one thing that really bothers me about this game. Why does GGG punish you for something that's sometimes (and more often than it should be) out of your control? There are many insta-death scenarios that happen too quickly for a player to react, and when people argue a player "should" have reacted, they often forget that this has turned into an incredibly fast-paced game with visual indicators that are frequently difficult to see in the chaos on the screen. Exploding corpses and volatile enemies are especially awful (see here). Or people may die from connectivity issues, which we unfortunately have to suffer through in an online-only game.

Now, when one of these ridiculous deaths happens at high levels (early 90s and higher), it's thoroughly demoralizing. People rage quit or lose incentive to play if they don't feel like they're progressing (and rerolling characters, for me personally, is anything but fun -- I've done it so many times -- except maybe at the start of a new league).

So, why not reward softcore players for surviving instead of punishing them for dying? I feel like there would be less resentment and better player retention if there was, instead of the death penalty, an experience multiplier that slowly grew, for example, based on map tiers completed without death. No one likes to feel that their hours have been wasted, and triggering that feeling is about all the death penalty accomplishes. I'm sure GGG would want to make significant balance changes so that reaching 100 doesn't take the ladder climber any less time, but making level 100 seem more achievable to everyone else would probably be a positive direction for the game.

I really like this idea for several reasons:

First, the main difference between being hit with a penalty and getting a bonus is one of perception - you can reach whichever balance of "time to 100" you like with either one - but perception matters a lot.

Second, the current death penalty has several negative side effects:

• It disincentivises attempting hard map mods or hard bosses
• It rewards running maps many tiers below what you can deal with, because the penalty is the same if you die regardless of which tier map you die on, and the xp bonuses from running the higher tier maps come nowhere near compensating when comparing dying once in a while with never dying at all (this league's red breachhead being an obvious exception to the rule). This compounds the issue of lower tier maps also taking shorter to run.
• The only thing the current penalty scales with, is "how much have I gained since I last leveled", resulting in the logical but counter-intuitive conclusion of many players that any hard maps that they intend to run at all should be saved until just after a character has leveled, where they don't have 10% xp to lose.

Your proposal does not address the first of these to any noticeable degree, but it fully adresses the third point and partially the second so long as the increasing multiplier that grows with map completion grows superlinearly in tier levels so e.g. it will take many fewer T15 maps completed to regain the full bonus than T10s.

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Pi2rEpsilon wrote:

Second, the current death penalty has several negative side effects:

• It disincentivises attempting hard map mods or hard bosses
• It rewards running maps many tiers below what you can deal with, because the penalty is the same if you die regardless of which tier map you die on, and the xp bonuses from running the higher tier maps come nowhere near compensating when comparing dying once in a while with never dying at all (this league's red breachhead being an obvious exception to the rule). This compounds the issue of lower tier maps also taking shorter to run.
• The only thing the current penalty scales with, is "how much have I gained since I last leveled", resulting in the logical but counter-intuitive conclusion of many players that any hard maps that they intend to run at all should be saved until just after a character has leveled, where they don't have 10% xp to lose.

This is inline with my thought & how I played. I don't do the hard maps with hard mods until I reach a new level milestone.

There are better mechanics than death penalty as it is.

For example, now when you die on map you get 1 portal closed. Thats also penalty with is small, but always a penalty. During lab run its a good penalty since you lose whole run and entry ticket.

In maps I would add some flavor to such penalty, something like:
- on death one of your portal closes (like now - since you need to reenter)
- each portal opened to the instance give you +10% exp/drop rate (so the more of them you closed, the less rewarding is the map, up to +50%)
- boss of the map have triple the bonus from the portals (prevents zerking and reward you for actualy killing the boss, up to +150%)

The idea is to not punish player, but to reward them if they perform well.

this death penalty <3 fucking love it

just spent 4 hours grinding t13-14maps, spent ~100chisels, ~30alcs, ~30scourings, and maps aswell to get 10%, and one fuking FUCKING FUCKING FUCKING lag -10% 4hours and dozens of currency just poof

this fucking game is unplayable, lags kill all butterflies in my stomack. everyone who says l2p or whatever about connection/pc just fuck off.

last league i had ~100 active friends on my fl. now 3.
fix lags or remove fucking penalties, or whatever, just fucking do something.

Last time I died was more than a week ago to volatiles.