Remove xp loss on death, replace with xp bonuses for surviving

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goetzjam wrote:

Most of you guys are complaining about 90+ or 94-95 +, those last skill points aren't necessary for any build I've seen in ages, not only due to power creep, but the expectation is you aren't suppose to get those without large grinds and little to no mistakes. Of course your entitled to hit level 100 because you know you play a lot and thats max level, people dind't hit level 99 in d2 very often and if you did, you GRINDED.

Well, why not improve those last 10 levels from a progression point of view? If they retained that same great feeling that leveling from 1-90 has, you wouldn't had a problem and see feedback on how to improve the experience.

Hell, in this moment I wouldn't even change the death penalty, but I would tune down a bit the damage scaling and adjust the one shot scenarios and implement a warning: "This game has an experience wall that grows exponentially post level 90, the EXP gain will be smaller than usual, and the death penalty will feel more punishing. Proceed towards 100 at your own discretion!", then everything that we are talking will actually be rendered null - of course it would be better to improve the state, but at least a fair warning instead of an invisible wall would be better and a lot more honest...

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sofocle10000 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Most of you guys are complaining about 90+ or 94-95 +, those last skill points aren't necessary for any build I've seen in ages, not only due to power creep, but the expectation is you aren't suppose to get those without large grinds and little to no mistakes. Of course your entitled to hit level 100 because you know you play a lot and thats max level, people dind't hit level 99 in d2 very often and if you did, you GRINDED.

Well, why not improve those last 10 levels from a progression point of view? If they retained that same great feeling that leveling from 1-90 has, you wouldn't had a problem and see feedback on how to improve the experience.

Hell, in this moment I wouldn't even change the death penalty, but I would tune down a bit the damage scaling and adjust the one shot scenarios and implement a warning: "This game has an experience wall that grows exponentially post level 90, the EXP gain will be smaller than usual, and the death penalty will feel more punishing. Proceed towards 100 at your own discretion!", then everything that we are talking will actually be rendered null - of course it would be better to improve the state, but at least a fair warning instead of an invisible wall would be better and a lot more honest...

But that sort of information shouldn't be force feed to people, once you die at a high level in softcore you discover that. If you are leveling slower and slower you discover that there is a curve of XP gain and that you need to grind in an ARPG game to level up. I suppose people are used to playing games where they are entitled to hit max level so they can "finish" a character, but in ARPG games typically you never reach a max level and your done with a character when you've done whatever challenges you want and geared up to a point you want to be.


The wiki has a load of information regarding XP penalties, both the loss on death as well as XP penalty for playing content.

Well, you can go on HC, they don't lose exp on death.

They lose their character.

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goetzjam wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Most of you guys are complaining about 90+ or 94-95 +, those last skill points aren't necessary for any build I've seen in ages, not only due to power creep, but the expectation is you aren't suppose to get those without large grinds and little to no mistakes. Of course your entitled to hit level 100 because you know you play a lot and thats max level, people dind't hit level 99 in d2 very often and if you did, you GRINDED.

Well, why not improve those last 10 levels from a progression point of view? If they retained that same great feeling that leveling from 1-90 has, you wouldn't had a problem and see feedback on how to improve the experience.

Hell, in this moment I wouldn't even change the death penalty, but I would tune down a bit the damage scaling and adjust the one shot scenarios and implement a warning: "This game has an experience wall that grows exponentially post level 90, the EXP gain will be smaller than usual, and the death penalty will feel more punishing. Proceed towards 100 at your own discretion!", then everything that we are talking will actually be rendered null - of course it would be better to improve the state, but at least a fair warning instead of an invisible wall would be better and a lot more honest...

But that sort of information shouldn't be force feed to people, once you die at a high level in softcore you discover that. If you are leveling slower and slower you discover that there is a curve of XP gain and that you need to grind in an ARPG game to level up. I suppose people are used to playing games where they are entitled to hit max level so they can "finish" a character, but in ARPG games typically you never reach a max level and your done with a character when you've done whatever challenges you want and geared up to a point you want to be.


The wiki has a load of information regarding XP penalties, both the loss on death as well as XP penalty for playing content.

Neah, once per league would be cool enough, as you should always have to reach 90 as a challenge/achievement...

If you play a character continuously, even as a bad player, you will always advance towards the max level available so to hit the max became a long time ago only a question of time investment - due to not tying progression post 90 to end game content/>11 tier maps at least, even casuals would reach 100, no matter their skill.

I would prefer to request skill from players when dealing with the last 5 levels (so post level 95) and encourage them to challenge themselves with the end game content instead of mindlessly running shaped Dunes/Strands/Gorges - keep this EXP penalty for the "casuals" so they have to grind, but don't make players that hone their skill grind to that level too, as the Guardian/Shaper/Uber Atziri fights are more prone to tax a mistake than the most unforgiving and punishing rolled shaped Strand/Gorge...

Until they find a way to show those aspects in game, the wiki could have even the Holy Grail and it wouldn't make a difference. Not reaching players, even those at a casual level, easy enough to explain those points illustrates that there is room for improvements...

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MrTremere wrote:

It's an entirely different experience getting applied a very harsh penalty that you chose to risk compared to experiencing a very harsh penalty that was imposed upon you without you ever agreeing to it (and to the smart-asses that say that we agree to play the game, I'll say a very clear "Fuck you")

Wait ... so you are playing a games with given rules, and because you don't like it you just say "fuck" you to others ?
That's a very antagonizing and counter-productive behaviour that we have here.

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Arifureta wrote:

Well, you can go on HC, they don't lose exp on death.

They lose their character.

Flash news : the characters losses xp before being thrown to standard.

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Fruz wrote:

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MrTremere wrote:

It's an entirely different experience getting applied a very harsh penalty that you chose to risk compared to experiencing a very harsh penalty that was imposed upon you without you ever agreeing to it (and to the smart-asses that say that we agree to play the game, I'll say a very clear "Fuck you")

Wait ... so you are playing a games with given rules, and because you don't like it you just say "fuck" you to others ?
That's a very antagonizing and counter-productive behaviour that we have here.

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Arifureta wrote:

Well, you can go on HC, they don't lose exp on death.

They lose their character.

Flash news : the characters losses xp before being thrown to standard.

Flash news - it also happens only once. How cool would they find the system if the penalty would actually move them from league to league (have all the league available so the HC players could enjoy one chance at reaching 100 on the current league, then go chronologically until you hit the Standard league)?

HC would actually be more hardcore if the character were voided at death and a cool cemetery could have all the fallen character names and their achievements for display...

The above coment might be antagonising and display counter-productive behaviour, but that doesn't mean it didn't raised a fair point. Why not review this mechanic and make it feel cool instead - gradually increases of EXP penalty per number of deaths, until you lose a level or even remove it and have all equipment that you worn be voided by death etc.

You could always find ways to make death punishing for those "immortals" on Softcore Standard, but choosing the set value that becomes hours upon hours of progression lost at the upper levels feels demoralising enough if the deaths are also tied to "pop the weasel mechanics" that make at times character feel feeble... Why not revise and improve it as that seems the trend these days?

tl;dr some people started playing PoE knowing about exp penalty. Now they don't like it, so they want it changed, not caring about people who started playing PoE and accepted the death penalty design.

I don't know what you expect guys. I really don't.

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sofocle1000 wrote:

HC would actually be more hardcore if the character were voided at death and a cool cemetery could have all the fallen character names and their achievements for display...

That would be kinda cool.
Better than having the character in standard to toy with ? not so sure about that.

Anyway, throwing BHC players that rip into Breach would just make player value less the Breach league, it won't happen.

And about the other comment, it just showed that the player was absolutely not being rational at all.
Having something like :
- 5% death the first time
- 8% death penalty the second time
- 11% death penalty the third time
- 14% death penalty the fourth time

And reset the bonus when somebody accumulates a total of let's say .... 30% experience, would help people just occasionally dying.
But you know what ? It would just actually create more QQ here I'm sure.

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Fruz wrote:

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sofocle1000 wrote:

HC would actually be more hardcore if the character were voided at death and a cool cemetery could have all the fallen character names and their achievements for display...

That would be kinda cool.
Better than having the character in standard to toy with ? not so sure about that.

Anyway, throwing BHC players that rip into Breach would just make player value less the Breach league, it won't happen.

And about the other comment, it just showed that the player was absolutely not being rational at all.
Having something like :
- 5% death the first time
- 8% death penalty the second time
- 11% death penalty the third time
- 14% death penalty the fourth time

And reset the bonus when somebody accumulates a total of let's say .... 30% experience, would help people just occasionally dying.
But you know what ? It would just actually create more QQ here I'm sure.

As long as you don't make it free exp for everyone, some people will never be happy.

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Perq wrote:

As long as you don't make it free exp for everyone, some people will never be happy.

As long as you don't follow a linear progression curve regarding EXP penalty, and set arbitrary "invisible walls" no one should be happy.

And make it "free exp for everyone" would still leave some persons not happy because people are different and you can't make everyone happy at the same time except with too much concessions...