Donald Trump and US politics

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

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diablofdb wrote:

I think there is a real radicalisation in the left. I used to be a liberal progressive, I always voted for the liberals in Canada. But one thing that turn me off and many other is the extreme mesures they are now taking. I do not recognize myself in the liberals anymore, I think the left has became so hostile to anyone who slightly disagree with them, it just turn of many of their moderate followers. Calling names and labeling anyone who have a different set of ideas is wrong. I know many people who have voted twice for Obama and now ended up voting for Trump.

I think the left has to stop what they are doing and think. Reform their ideas and go back to what they used to be.

I'm curious, did you see the same from the right at all? Because I recall, back in 2010, it wasn't just people being "called names" and "labeled" (although there certainly was a lot of that); anyone who didn't pass ideological purity tests got primaried, including the house majority leader, Eric Cantor, in 2014. Many of them were replaced by more ideologically pure hardliners.

Meanwhile, having spent quite a bit of time on forums with a large population of right-wingers, I see quite a bit of the right being hostile to anyone who slightly disagrees with them. Maybe it's just accepted at this point that if you support abortion in any way, you're a child murderer, or if you support progressive taxation you're a communist, or if you support trans rights you're a danger to children. Show any sign of anger or outrage at hateful or bigoted statements, or any form of respect to women, and you're a "beta cuck". And that's not even getting into the really nasty shit you see swirling around the alt-right.

It's pretty easy to nutpick both sides, and name-calling is by far one of the mildest things to come out of this. If I call you an anti-intellectual moron, what does that actually do? Hell, at this point I doubt it even makes you feel bad. You don't care. Meanwhile, Milo Yiannopolous calls out an actress and she gets harassed by a fairly massive group of racist, misogynist trolls. But whatever, the issue is, it's really hard to call out the left in particular for this when it's clear both sides do it. We have the tumblr set, you have the chantard and gamergate set. And while I will admit that our group is an annoyance and a hindrance to progressive discussion, perhaps it would be better to remove the shiny golden tower with 68 floors from your eye before you criticize the mote in ours. Address the rational content, not the insane demands of a tiny minority of loonies.

Or, to put it another way... Our last president explicitly called out the people you're complaining about. Meanwhile, your president's top advisor is pretty much the leader of the alt-right.

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diablofdb wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Spoiler

I don't consider the kind of asshats who would burn Berkeley down to prevent Milo from speaking to be liberals. I get that they pose as liberals, try to blend in with liberals, want you to think they're liberals... but they're not. They're fascists — the real ones.

The problem with the contemporary Left is not that liberalism has become a fascist ideology which has abandoned arguments in favor of insult and violence. The problem with the contemporary Left is that it has been infested with corruption. Major portions of the Democratic Party are loyal to Wall Street and war profiteers, not the people; they offer their liberal constituency nothing but empty words. Such practices cannot persist in the light of truth and require an environment of illusion; therefore, they seek to replace thoughts with feelings, debate with intimidation, information with indoctrination, issues with identity. But even as these traitors act upon the Left (and, make no mistake, the Right as well), they are separate from it; imposters, not the real deal.

As an abstract ideology, liberalism is just as strong as it's ever been. As a real-life movement, the so-called Left is plagued by fascist posers. When you see someone like Rubin talking about leaving the Left, it's very clear that he's still a liberal, that he personally hasn't shifted right; instead, his entire argument is that his so-called allies on the Left have become something else, something which he can no longer in good conscience stand with.

We are approaching a moment where both the Left and the Right call the Republican Party home, and all that remains of the Democrats is cancer. That party will die off unless it cleanses itself of its disease (as the Justice Democrats hope and plan), but ideological liberalism most certainly shall not perish, regardless.

I agree with that, people who riot like that in the streets are the real fascists, but I think it go further than just that. I think there is a real radicalisation in the left. I used to be a liberal progressive, I always voted for the liberals in Canada. But one thing that turn me off and many other is the extreme mesures they are now taking. I do not recognize myself in the liberals anymore, I think the left has became so hostile to anyone who slightly disagree with them, it just turn of many of their moderate followers. Calling names and labeling anyone who have a different set of ideas is wrong. I know many people who have voted twice for Obama and now ended up voting for Trump.

I think the left has to stop what they are doing and think. Reform their ideas and go back to what they used to be.

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diablofdb wrote:

again.... because you disagree with them you label them as the "alt-right" like I've said....

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labeling name calling. Very long text just to push up more of the same. You first play a mix of victim card and shaming card, then you end into labeling and name calling. I'm not saying the right is right, but I can tell you this, I support them now because they are not what the liberals became. Liberals became everything they used to fight against.

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lol just check the bill M103 in Canada. This is the closest you can get to fascism.

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That, in the opinion of the House, the government should: (a) recognize the need to quell the increasing public climate of hate and fear; (b) condemn Islamophobia and all forms of systemic racism and religious discrimination and take note of House of Commons’ petition e-411 and the issues raised by it; and (c) request that the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage undertake a study on how the government could (i) develop a whole-of-government approach to reducing or eliminating systemic racism and religious discrimination including Islamophobia, in Canada, while ensuring a community-centered focus with a holistic response through evidence-based policy-making, (ii) collect data to contextualize hate crime reports and to conduct needs assessments for impacted communities, and that the Committee should present its findings and recommendations to the House no later than 240 calendar days from the adoption of this motion, provided that in its report, the Committee should make recommendations that the government may use to better reflect the enshrined rights and freedoms in the Constitution Acts, including the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

long ass post "islamophobia"