Donald Trump and US politics

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Schmodderhengst wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Schmodderhengst wrote:

lol you actually believe that chart?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

Tell that to undocumented Democrats like John McCain.

I move that we deport him back to Vietnam.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

To clarify: when I speak of the Invisible Hand, I dissociate it from the idea's originator, Adam Smith, and by extension from capitalism. I focus instead in the invisible hand of rational selfishness — basically, in each situation, if someone acts in a manner with the maximum long-term benefit towards oneself, where does that path take them? People have trained themselves to stop thinking at this point, to shun selfishness as wrongthink, instead of looking for the trajectory that the invisible hand of rational selfishness propels such people along, based off the circumstances that effect choice. When that trajectory lines up with social goods, that means incentive and disincentive systems are working — what is good for the individual lines up with what is good for society. Whether you want to view such selfishness as evil as Christianity does, or as good in a Rand does, makes no difference to me; the point is that the rationally selfish should be among the prime mentalities considered when forecasting the effects of proposed policy.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Selfishness brought us everything medicines computers cars everything that makes our life good. Even the soviets realized they had to reward top scientists with dachas and the good life for discovery instead of toil like everyone else. Greed is good until it hurts someone.

BTW I told you Christianity was embedded in the west atmospherics/tenants/mores even by non Christians and you argued with me poster u reply to and millions of libs like him is perfect example saying greed is bad. West seems self sacrificial in general. Jesus complex.

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ChanBalam wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Selfishness brought us everything medicines computers cars everything that makes our life good. Even the soviets realized they had to reward top scientists with dachas and the good life for discovery instead of toil like everyone else. Greed is good until it hurts someone.

BTW I told you Christianity was embedded in the west atmospherics/tenants/mores even by non Christians and you argued with me poster u reply to and millions of libs like him is perfect example saying greed is bad. West seems self sacrificial in general. Jesus complex.

Selfishness also brought us WW 1 and WW 2, Enron, Superfund sites, 17 years of war in Afghanistan, North Korea, the Cultural Revolution, ISIS, the Great Recession, VW diesel scandal, Putin and his Russian Oligarchy. Should I go on?

Selfishness is a double edged sword and it is the role of community, government and law to maximize the good things being selfish can do with the bad things it is likely to do. Of course government isn't perfect and can play an equally destructive role, but it also can and does play a very positive role in balancing things. People are not likely to change much. Government can change and we need better government that serves the needs of more people and not less.

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ChanBalam wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

To clarify: when I speak of the Invisible Hand, I dissociate it from the idea's originator, Adam Smith, and by extension from capitalism. I focus instead in the invisible hand of rational selfishness — basically, in each situation, if someone acts in a manner with the maximum long-term benefit towards oneself, where does that path take them? People have trained themselves to stop thinking at this point, to shun selfishness as wrongthink, instead of looking for the trajectory that the invisible hand of rational selfishness propels such people along, based off the circumstances that effect choice. When that trajectory lines up with social goods, that means incentive and disincentive systems are working — what is good for the individual lines up with what is good for society. Whether you want to view such selfishness as evil as Christianity does, or as good in a Rand does, makes no difference to me; the point is that the rationally selfish should be among the prime mentalities considered when forecasting the effects of proposed policy.

Can you provide some examples of industries where the leading companies volunteered, without threat of Government regulation or lawsuits, to improve working conditions, raise worker pay, stop polluting, stop cheating customers, or otherwise reduce profits for the greater good of their communities? Here are some industries to consider:

Mining
Manufacturing
Automotive
Retail
Financial services
Construction
Agriculture
Banking
Petrochemical
Aerospace
Technology
Transportation

Do you you think that there are any instances in the past 50 years, 100 years, where business owners have deliberately screwed over workers, customers and communities for greater profits?

Your rewriting of what the "invisible hand" means may suit your personal take on how things should be done, but it bears little relationship to the reality of how people actually behave.

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diablofdb wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Selfishness brought us everything medicines computers cars everything that makes our life good. Even the soviets realized they had to reward top scientists with dachas and the good life for discovery instead of toil like everyone else. Greed is good until it hurts someone.

BTW I told you Christianity was embedded in the west atmospherics/tenants/mores even by non Christians and you argued with me poster u reply to and millions of libs like him is perfect example saying greed is bad. West seems self sacrificial in general. Jesus complex.

Selfishness also brought us WW 1 and WW 2, Enron, Superfund sites, 17 years of war in Afghanistan, North Korea, the Cultural Revolution, ISIS, the Great Recession, VW diesel scandal, Putin and his Russian Oligarchy. Should I go on?

Selfishness is a double edged sword and it is the role of community, government and law to maximize the good things being selfish can do with the bad things it is likely to do. Of course government isn't perfect and can play an equally destructive role, but it also can and does play a very positive role in balancing things. People are not likely to change much. Government can change and we need better government that serves the needs of more people and not less.

About the WW2.... the Nazis were left wings btw. And then there was the cold war.

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deathflower wrote:

Kinda my point. But we usually disagree on what we define as harmful and what we need to or does not need to regulate. Democrats and Republicans are just pole apart on various issues. I think it is a example of prisoner's dilemma, cooperating might appear to be in their best interests, but both sides doesn't trust each other and ended up picking the worst decision possible. Kinda how rational individuals can make bad choices.