The emergency room issue is stupid. Fine their asses when they show up there with a freaking cold. My wife was admitted to hospital a few years ago and I went to visit her and accidentally walked through the emergency room and nearly lost it. Morons sitting around with the flu (this was in winter).
Well, if it works that way in america. Around here we only go there with broken body parts and other surgery or otherwise medical emergency care that our doctors cant provide. Doctors offices are full with people who have the flu or pretend to have it to not work tho.
Ted Cruz was born in Canada, but he was still electable to be president because his mother was born in the US right? Even if Obama was born in another country, wasn't his mother Kansan? That was the only part of the birther thing that I didn't fully understand
Here's a wall of text. Read it or don't:
Congress is empowered by the Constitution to “establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,” Art. I, §8. Anyone acquiring citizenship solely under the exercise of this power is, Constitutionally speaking, A NATURALIZED CITIZEN.
In United States V. Wong Kim Ark (1898), the Supreme Court said this: “…A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized, either by treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory, or by authority of Congress…”
Cruz was born in Calgary, FAR from US jurisdiction.
In Schneider V. Rusk (1964) Justice William O. Douglas wrote: “We start from the premise that the rights of citizenship of the native born and of the naturalized person are of the same dignity, and are coextensive. The only difference drawn by the Constitution is that only the “natural born” citizen is eligible to be President. Art. II, § 1.”
In Rogers v. Bellei (1971) Justice Hugo Black wrote “Although those Americans who acquire their citizenship under statutes conferring citizenship on the foreign-born children of citizens are not popularly thought of as naturalized citizens, the use of the word “naturalize” in this way has a considerable constitutional history."
In other words, a natural born citizen is the only kind that doesn't need to go through a "naturalization process."
Having been born outside the US, at best Cruz is a NATURALIZED US citizen. I won't bother getting into the controversy surrounding his having SEALED his records which could prove or disprove that, but suffice it to say that higher courts have already established that an individual in Rafael Edward Cruz' position cannot be a Natural Born Citizen of the United States.
This is precisely why a child born to an American parent in another country MUST have a CRBA (Consular Record of Birth Abroad) registered for them to acquire citizenship:
"A child born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents may acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if certain statutory requirements are met." (This process is what is referred to in United States V. Wong Kim Ark, above).
"Never assume that, because you successfully applied for another child’s U.S. citizenship, you do not need to bring any evidence to interviews for subsequent children."
One does not have to apply for the citizenship of a natural born citizen child. The language above, taken directly from US Consular web pages, is clear: A child born to US citizen parent(s) abroad MUST have citizenship established by statute, rather than birth.
The CRBA exists for a reason, and Sen. Cruz still falls under the requirements outlined for that documentation of citizenship, assuming his mother ever even filed it. If that CRBA filing had not been completed by Cruz' eighteenth birthday, he forefeited any chance to be a US citizen, save by subsequent application as a foreign national for naturalization. One cannot forfeit natural born citizenship by simple inaction.
If Obama was, in fact (which has yet to be established, and remains suspect), born in Kenya, he was, at best, a naturalized citizen. Of course, the ability of his mother to confer any citizenship status may have been compromised by her age at the time of his birth, relative to other statutes regarding period of residency by the citizen birth parent, but that falls outside this particular discussion, as does his possible citizenship of Indonesia, which has also been raised as a question, given Obama's travel history as a young man. ='[.]'=
A 4th option, forget partisan dick schwinging (and bowing to donors), forget repeal, work bipartisan and fix things that don't work.
If the pundits are correct, Trump is already heavily leaning on some of the GOP for them to start doing this, or face getting replaced during the next primaries. If the left isn't willing to come to the table at all, they will be looking like complete obstructionists to the American people (which has historically mean a lot get booted from office) and they will be facing a much more united GOP.
Compromise. Any elected leader that can't say that word out loud and elaborate why it is important for an efficient and useful government, needs to resign and go home.
If the plan is 25% better than before, its still better. Next term they can work on making it better still.
"The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis
PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
Ted Cruz was born in Canada, but he was still electable to be president because his mother was born in the US right? Even if Obama was born in another country, wasn't his mother Kansan? That was the only part of the birther thing that I didn't fully understand
Here's a wall of text. Read it or don't:
Spoiler
Congress is empowered by the Constitution to “establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,” Art. I, §8. Anyone acquiring citizenship solely under the exercise of this power is, Constitutionally speaking, A NATURALIZED CITIZEN.
In United States V. Wong Kim Ark (1898), the Supreme Court said this: “…A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized, either by treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory, or by authority of Congress…”
Cruz was born in Calgary, FAR from US jurisdiction.
In Schneider V. Rusk (1964) Justice William O. Douglas wrote: “We start from the premise that the rights of citizenship of the native born and of the naturalized person are of the same dignity, and are coextensive. The only difference drawn by the Constitution is that only the “natural born” citizen is eligible to be President. Art. II, § 1.”
In Rogers v. Bellei (1971) Justice Hugo Black wrote “Although those Americans who acquire their citizenship under statutes conferring citizenship on the foreign-born children of citizens are not popularly thought of as naturalized citizens, the use of the word “naturalize” in this way has a considerable constitutional history."
In other words, a natural born citizen is the only kind that doesn't need to go through a "naturalization process."
Having been born outside the US, at best Cruz is a NATURALIZED US citizen. I won't bother getting into the controversy surrounding his having SEALED his records which could prove or disprove that, but suffice it to say that higher courts have already established that an individual in Rafael Edward Cruz' position cannot be a Natural Born Citizen of the United States.
This is precisely why a child born to an American parent in another country MUST have a CRBA (Consular Record of Birth Abroad) registered for them to acquire citizenship:
"A child born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents may acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if certain statutory requirements are met." (This process is what is referred to in United States V. Wong Kim Ark, above).
"Never assume that, because you successfully applied for another child’s U.S. citizenship, you do not need to bring any evidence to interviews for subsequent children."
One does not have to apply for the citizenship of a natural born citizen child. The language above, taken directly from US Consular web pages, is clear: A child born to US citizen parent(s) abroad MUST have citizenship established by statute, rather than birth.
The CRBA exists for a reason, and Sen. Cruz still falls under the requirements outlined for that documentation of citizenship, assuming his mother ever even filed it. If that CRBA filing had not been completed by Cruz' eighteenth birthday, he forefeited any chance to be a US citizen, save by subsequent application as a foreign national for naturalization. One cannot forfeit natural born citizenship by simple inaction.
If Obama was, in fact (which has yet to be established, and remains suspect), born in Kenya, he was, at best, a naturalized citizen. Of course, the ability of his mother to confer any citizenship status may have been compromised by her age at the time of his birth, relative to other statutes regarding period of residency by the citizen birth parent, but that falls outside this particular discussion, as does his possible citizenship of Indonesia, which has also been raised as a question, given Obama's travel history as a young man. ='[.]'=
8 U.S. Code § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
Being that Ted Cruz's mother is a US citizen and was in the US continuously for over a year, Ted Cruz would quality as a Natural Born Citizen.
Spoiler
§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at
birth
The following shall be nationals and citizens
of the United States at birth:
Page 421 TITLE 8—ALIENS AND NATIONALITY § 1401
(a) a person born in the United States, and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a
member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or
other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the
granting of citizenship under this subsection
shall not in any manner impair or otherwise
affect the right of such person to tribal or
other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United
States and its outlying possessions of parents
both of whom are citizens of the United States
and one of whom has had a residence in the
United States or one of its outlying possessions,
prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United
States and its outlying possessions of parents
one of whom is a citizen of the United States
who has been physically present in the United
States or one of its outlying possessions for a
continuous period of one year prior to the
birth of such person, and the other of whom is
a national, but not a citizen of the United
States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of
the United States of parents one of whom is a
citizen of the United States who has been
physically present in the United States or one
of its outlying possessions for a continuous period
of one year at any time prior to the birth
of such person;
"The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis
PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
Ted Cruz was born in Canada, but he was still electable to be president because his mother was born in the US right? Even if Obama was born in another country, wasn't his mother Kansan? That was the only part of the birther thing that I didn't fully understand
Here's a wall of text. Read it or don't:
Spoiler
Congress is empowered by the Constitution to “establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,” Art. I, §8. Anyone acquiring citizenship solely under the exercise of this power is, Constitutionally speaking, A NATURALIZED CITIZEN.
In United States V. Wong Kim Ark (1898), the Supreme Court said this: “…A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized, either by treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory, or by authority of Congress…”
Cruz was born in Calgary, FAR from US jurisdiction.
In Schneider V. Rusk (1964) Justice William O. Douglas wrote: “We start from the premise that the rights of citizenship of the native born and of the naturalized person are of the same dignity, and are coextensive. The only difference drawn by the Constitution is that only the “natural born” citizen is eligible to be President. Art. II, § 1.”
In Rogers v. Bellei (1971) Justice Hugo Black wrote “Although those Americans who acquire their citizenship under statutes conferring citizenship on the foreign-born children of citizens are not popularly thought of as naturalized citizens, the use of the word “naturalize” in this way has a considerable constitutional history."
In other words, a natural born citizen is the only kind that doesn't need to go through a "naturalization process."
Having been born outside the US, at best Cruz is a NATURALIZED US citizen. I won't bother getting into the controversy surrounding his having SEALED his records which could prove or disprove that, but suffice it to say that higher courts have already established that an individual in Rafael Edward Cruz' position cannot be a Natural Born Citizen of the United States.
This is precisely why a child born to an American parent in another country MUST have a CRBA (Consular Record of Birth Abroad) registered for them to acquire citizenship:
"A child born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents may acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if certain statutory requirements are met." (This process is what is referred to in United States V. Wong Kim Ark, above).
"Never assume that, because you successfully applied for another child’s U.S. citizenship, you do not need to bring any evidence to interviews for subsequent children."
One does not have to apply for the citizenship of a natural born citizen child. The language above, taken directly from US Consular web pages, is clear: A child born to US citizen parent(s) abroad MUST have citizenship established by statute, rather than birth.
The CRBA exists for a reason, and Sen. Cruz still falls under the requirements outlined for that documentation of citizenship, assuming his mother ever even filed it. If that CRBA filing had not been completed by Cruz' eighteenth birthday, he forefeited any chance to be a US citizen, save by subsequent application as a foreign national for naturalization. One cannot forfeit natural born citizenship by simple inaction.
If Obama was, in fact (which has yet to be established, and remains suspect), born in Kenya, he was, at best, a naturalized citizen. Of course, the ability of his mother to confer any citizenship status may have been compromised by her age at the time of his birth, relative to other statutes regarding period of residency by the citizen birth parent, but that falls outside this particular discussion, as does his possible citizenship of Indonesia, which has also been raised as a question, given Obama's travel history as a young man. ='[.]'=
8 U.S. Code § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
Being that Ted Cruz's mother is a US citizen and was in the US continuously for over a year, Ted Cruz would quality as a Natural Born Citizen.
Spoiler
§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at
birth
The following shall be nationals and citizens
of the United States at birth:
Page 421 TITLE 8—ALIENS AND NATIONALITY § 1401
(a) a person born in the United States, and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a
member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or
other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the
granting of citizenship under this subsection
shall not in any manner impair or otherwise
affect the right of such person to tribal or
other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United
States and its outlying possessions of parents
both of whom are citizens of the United States
and one of whom has had a residence in the
United States or one of its outlying possessions,
prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United
States and its outlying possessions of parents
one of whom is a citizen of the United States
who has been physically present in the United
States or one of its outlying possessions for a
continuous period of one year prior to the
birth of such person, and the other of whom is
a national, but not a citizen of the United
States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of
the United States of parents one of whom is a
citizen of the United States who has been
physically present in the United States or one
of its outlying possessions for a continuous period
of one year at any time prior to the birth
of such person;
Then someone needs to tell that to the State Department, so that they can fix their web sites, and to SCOTUS, so that they don't draw on case precedent for any related rulings. =0[.]o=
The emergency room issue is stupid. Fine their asses when they show up there with a freaking cold. My wife was admitted to hospital a few years ago and I went to visit her and accidentally walked through the emergency room and nearly lost it. Morons sitting around with the flu (this was in winter).
Well, if it works that way in america. Around here we only go there with broken body parts and other surgery or otherwise medical emergency care that our doctors cant provide. Doctors offices are full with people who have the flu or pretend to have it to not work tho.
Similar here in Australia. But there are fundamental differences that make that possible. For a start, GPs here are almost always open to new patients. We have an abundance of the buggers. Doctor visits are either covered by Medicare entirely (bulk billing) or heavily subsidised. We also have walk-in late night medical centres in most large suburbs (so say two to three per two hundred thousand people) that are staffed by rotating GPs from local practices. The emergency room is for wounds or things requiring immediate medical attention. In my case it's been severe abdominal cramping a few times in the past year requiring heavy opiates and observation.
Now I'm not saying that system is perfect. At least one time I was left in a reclining chair for a good eight hours because my case was deemed less immediate than others, and it was a peak period of basic idiocy (saturday night). But when your GPs and medical centres can handle non-emergencies and the populace knows it is a viable, affordable option most of the time, the ER triage tends to have to deal only with things requiring ER-level attention.
In contrast, my one real experience with a US ER was severe food poisoning. I wasn't admitted, basically spent most of the time puking into a bedpan they gave me in the waiting room and only saw a doctor after most of it had passed. That was in 1998, and it still cost several times more than a hospital *stay* here does now with very basic private insurance.
The point is, if the ER is to be effective, the strain on said ER put on by people who aren't given viable alternatives has to be significantly eased by accessible day-to-day healthcare.
Achieving that in a severely capitalist country of several hundred million people with a failing social security situation may remain simply impossible. And that does make me very sad, because I care dearly about quite a few Americans...many of whom feel 'just don't get sick' is the only way to avoid crippling debt.
Import about 150 million deadbeats and let me know how cheap oz HC is after that. We have cost shifting. HC industry makes makers pay for takers. All started with socialist Ronald Reagan and EMTALA and continued from there.
And yes I'm never gonna get sick or buy Obama care. I gladly pay the fines. Don't eat meat. Had a Kale slurpy for dinner after my daily 7 mile run.
If something happens I'll fly to India or Pakistan and get care for 5% of USA costs with cash I've saved.
Edit and social security needs to die as well. Save for your own retirement dont rob young ppl. Make no mistake its a pay go program with no savings. They steal from working ppl to pay for old ppl. Also unsustainable.
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep#3474 on Mar 11, 2017, 3:03:45 AM
A 4th option, forget partisan dick schwinging (and bowing to donors), forget repeal, work bipartisan and fix things that don't work.
If the pundits are correct, Trump is already heavily leaning on some of the GOP for them to start doing this, or face getting replaced during the next primaries. If the left isn't willing to come to the table at all, they will be looking like complete obstructionists to the American people (which has historically mean a lot get booted from office) and they will be facing a much more united GOP.
Compromise. Any elected leader that can't say that word out loud and elaborate why it is important for an efficient and useful government, needs to resign and go home.
If the plan is 25% better than before, its still better. Next term they can work on making it better still.
Democrats that tend to favor pragmatic compromise and Republicans standing up for its "principles"? Democrats didn't bend over backward?
People who vote for Republicans and Democrats aren't the same group of people. They have opposing ideologies. For Democrats to not stand by their ideologies that people have vote them in for, is to abandon the trust that was entrusted by the people who voted for them.
Democrats need stand up for its principles for a change. Republicans and Democrats can’t even agree on objective reality.
I feel like someone forgot option four: work with the democrats to help fix what's not working with Obamacare. That has literally never been an option with the republicans, and it's not a bad idea. I reckon the insurance market would be a lot less volatile if it weren't for the party in power screaming "BAN THIS SICK FILTH" every other day. If they didn't go out of their way to sabotage the rollout, challenge important components of the law, and try to get people not to sign up, chances are good the law would be slightly more successful. But of course, what we got instead were 60 entirely symbolic "repeal" votes, and a piece of shit bill that fixes none of the problems and makes things considerably worse, along with a massive tax cut for people who pay their executives more than $500,000.
Then I remember that I am talking to a birther:
"
Raycheetah wrote:
If Obama was, in fact (which has yet to be established, and remains suspect), born in Kenya,
And consider instead a more productive use of my time, like slamming my head into a wall. No, it is not fucking suspect at all, and you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to believe that.
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