Donald Trump and US politics

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

MediaMatters wears its partisanship on its sleeve; its content is nonetheless extremely accurate media commentary.

Hahahahaha!

Let's take a visit and hunt us some fake news, shall we?

From https://mediamatters.org/blog/2017/02/24/trump-just-blacklisted-media-outlets-we-warned-you-would-happen/215456

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at CPAC this morning, Trump devoted six minutes of his speech to an anti-media screed, characterizing outlets doing critical reporting as “fake news” and “the enemy of the people.”

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Trump and his administration will happily trample all over the press while giving favorable treatment to outlets willing to play ball. They want propaganda partners, not an adversarial press.

From the six minutes in question: "I'm not against the media. I'm not against the press. I don't mind bad stories if I deserve them. And I love good stories, but we won't talk. I don't get too many of them. But I am only against the fake news media or press." — Donald Trump

So we should take him on his word? Look at what he's calling "fake news" - the fucking New York Times. That's no fake news. That's a long-running and extremely respectable newspaper with over a hundred pulitzers to its name. If the New York Times is fake news, then there is not a real news source in the entire world. To add to that, we've got Politico, which while nowhere near as venerable, is certainly a legitimate and trustworthy news outlet. This is like saying, "I'm only going to punch bad people", and then holding to that line when you punch out Gandhi after he stands up to you, and expecting people to believe you when you say that Gandhi was a douchebag.

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From https://mediamatters.org/blog/2017/01/27/watch-kellyanne-conway-push-three-anti-abortion-myths-under-two-minutes/215157

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2. “Taxpayer-Funded” Abortion Is A Right-Wing Media Myth

Conway listed “taxpayer-funded abortion” as one of the reasons she’s participating in the March for Life.

Fact: The Hyde Amendment already prohibits federal abortion funding -- with negative consequences for abortion access.

Conway and right-wing media have insisted that Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers use taxpayer money to fund abortion services -- despite a longstanding prohibition on the use of federal funds for this purpose.

The Hyde Amendment is a budgetary rider that has barred the use of federal Medicaid funds to cover abortion care, except in cases of rape or incest, or to save the mother’s life. Significantly, days before the March for Life, the House of Representatives voted to codify and dangerously expand the Hyde Amendment.

As the last paragraph implies, there are exceptions under which Medicaid funds are permitted for use towards abortion — for most practical purposes, when the woman claims to have been raped (a conviction is not required, due to time limitations), and when prescribed by a doctor due to high-risk pregnancy. Furthermore, federal standards compel funding of abortion in those instances. At a minimum, those are clear instances of federally funded abortion, and given the potential for fraud in the funding standards, I think it's naive to pretend that only real rape victims, and only mothers who would die carrying to term, are funded.

So your claim of "fake news" is a nitpick based on the header, which MediaMatters itself acknowledges. Here, I bolded it where you quoted it. Mediamatters openly acknowledges that taxpayer funds can go to abortions in the case of rape, incest, and immediate danger to the life of the mother. Is that what Kellyanne Conway was talking about? I don't know. Perhaps this bit of context helps: what republicans have been pushing for recently is to defund planned parenthood, because planned parenthood provides abortions. But this is a minor nitpick at best, because in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases, leaving aside only the exemptions which the vast majority of people agree to and which MediaMatters explicitly named, you cannot use government funding to pay for abortion.

Also, citation needed on your claim that people pretend they were raped in order to get medicaid funding for an abortion. That strikes me as utterly bizarre and offensive, personally - how often does this happen, do you think?

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From https://mediamatters.org/video/2017/02/23/msnbc-laverne-cox-explains-human-reality-trumps-rescinding-trans-inclusive-policies/215445

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And the current administration is revoking of these guidelines yesterday feels like we are moving backwards. And I think it sends a message to transgender people that we are not safe in this country.

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When trans people cannot access public bathrooms we can't go to schools effectively, go to work effectively, access healthcare facilities, it's about us existing in public space.

No one is telling trans people they "cannot access public bathrooms;" they are, at worst, forbidding them to use one of the two, while allowing access to the other. You can argue about the fairness of such prohibitions, but it's absurd to pretend that they're telling a class of people that they are prohibited from both men's and women's rooms.

Given that it is a matter of health for trans individuals to be able to use the restroom that corresponds to their gender, and given that there is a non-trivial risk of assault, harassment, or abuse when transgender individuals use the restroom that does not correspond to their gender, and given the experience of many trans individuals who are afraid to use the bathroom and as a result avoid it at all costs, and given the likelihood that the cops would be called if someone like Buck Angel or Shawn Stinson went into the "right" bathroom anyways... the characterization of not being able to access public bathrooms in places like North Carolina is at least partially valid. The experience of trans people in places like North Carolina is that they cannot legally and safely use the public restrooms. So they don't.

Nice "fake news". One piece that hinges on taking what Trump says at face value when he refers to one of the most trustworthy and venerable news sources in the nation as "fake news", and two weak little nitpicks that hardly qualify as false. And for this, we're supposed to toss out the website entirely? Really? What?

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

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From https://mediamatters.org/blog/2017/01/27/watch-kellyanne-conway-push-three-anti-abortion-myths-under-two-minutes/215157

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2. “Taxpayer-Funded” Abortion Is A Right-Wing Media Myth

Conway listed “taxpayer-funded abortion” as one of the reasons she’s participating in the March for Life.

Fact: The Hyde Amendment already prohibits federal abortion funding -- with negative consequences for abortion access.

Conway and right-wing media have insisted that Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers use taxpayer money to fund abortion services -- despite a longstanding prohibition on the use of federal funds for this purpose.

The Hyde Amendment is a budgetary rider that has barred the use of federal Medicaid funds to cover abortion care, except in cases of rape or incest, or to save the mother’s life. Significantly, days before the March for Life, the House of Representatives voted to codify and dangerously expand the Hyde Amendment.

As the last paragraph implies, there are exceptions under which Medicaid funds are permitted for use towards abortion — for most practical purposes, when the woman claims to have been raped (a conviction is not required, due to time limitations), and when prescribed by a doctor due to high-risk pregnancy. Furthermore, federal standards compel funding of abortion in those instances. At a minimum, those are clear instances of federally funded abortion, and given the potential for fraud in the funding standards, I think it's naive to pretend that only real rape victims, and only mothers who would die carrying to term, are funded.

So your claim of "fake news" is a nitpick based on the header, which MediaMatters itself acknowledges. Here, I bolded it where you quoted it. Mediamatters openly acknowledges that taxpayer funds can go to abortions in the case of rape, incest, and immediate danger to the life of the mother. Is that what Kellyanne Conway was talking about? I don't know. Perhaps this bit of context helps: what republicans have been pushing for recently is to defund planned parenthood, because planned parenthood provides abortions. But this is a minor nitpick at best, because in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases, leaving aside only the exemptions which the vast majority of people agree to and which MediaMatters explicitly named, you cannot use government funding to pay for abortion.

Taxpayer-funded abortion isn't a myth at all. It's just that the conditions that trigger funding make the policy quite popular, as you noted. Here's an honest header: "The statutory requirements for taxpayer funding of abortion make such funding very popular." Not with Conway and her ilk, obviously, but in general.

Just look at the quote again: in order, lie, saying what Conway said, lie again, lie a third time, an understatement that barely grazes the truth (accuracy would be claims of rape or risk to the mother's life), and finally alarmism. If you cannot recognize that "'Taxpayer-funded' Abortion Is A Right-Wing Media Myth" is nothing less than a straight-up lie, that since about 6% of all pregnancies are considered high-risk, 16% of the population is on Medicaid and there's 900k overall abortions nation-wide annually, there are likely several thousand taxpayer-funded abortions annually (not even counting rape allegations)... if you're going to tell a forumer who, as part of a couple, has personally been offered the "myth" that this is a "nitpick at best..." and then you think it's okay for your pet website to go full lie mode because they hint at the truth lower in the article in a place most sheeple don't read... then your head is too far up your own ass to find merit in discussing things with you.

" Fact: The Hyde Amendment already prohibits federal abortion funding -- with negative consequences for abortion access."

This would be a lie if they did not qualify the statement almost immediately afterwards. Which they do.

Again, this is at best a nitpick based on phrasing. Anyone reading that article can easily come away with an accurate take on the facts. It's perhaps worth noting that the same "error" is made by, interestingly enough, Lifesite News.

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WASHINGTON, D.C., January 24, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) – The U.S. House of Representatives voted 238 to 183 today to permanently ban taxpayer funding of abortion.

The No Taxpayer Funding of Abortion Act (HR 7), introduced by Rep. Chris Smith, R-NJ, makes permanent the so-called Hyde Amendment permanent. Thus far the amendment, which prohibits federal money from being used to fund abortions through Medicaid, has been subject to annual renewal.

Almost as if this is a commonly understood parlance, that when people talk about "taxpayer-funded abortions" they are excluding the obvious and popular exceptions.

Oh wow, Congressmen and right-wing websites lie too? My precious worldview lies shattered into oh-so-many pieces. Whatsoever shall I do?
Stop deflecting. Thousands of abortions annually.

I'm with the left on the abortion issue. For different reasons. There are too many humans with too many problems.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

I'm with the left on the abortion issue. For different reasons. There are too many humans with too many problems.

Same. I also think abortion is murder but I'd still allow it. Just own the fact that you killed a child.

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Xavderion wrote:

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

I'm with the left on the abortion issue. For different reasons. There are too many humans with too many problems.

Same. I also think abortion is murder but I'd still allow it. Just own the fact that you killed a child.

I am mostly with the left on the abortion issue too... but not 100% I think it should still be limited.

an abortion after 8 months of pregnancy is wrong.

Abortion should be reserved for those who have gotten pregnant from rape, pregnant from molestation, or if you receive government assistance. Taxpayers don't need to continue paying for sluts with 8 kids from 8 different guys and don't have a clue who the fathers even are. Maury Povich has proven there is no shortage of these skanks.

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Wraeclastian wrote:

Abortion should be reserved for those who have gotten pregnant from rape, pregnant from molestation, or if you receive government assistance. Taxpayers don't need to continue paying for sluts with 8 kids from 8 different guys and don't have a clue who the fathers even are.

I like this comment because neither political party would go near it. Not agreeing or disagreeing, just appreciating.

Why is abortion an issue? Sounds like fake news again. Trump nor any other republicans will ever ban abortion. Would be civil war 2.0 if they did