Donald Trump and US politics

On a side note, for anyone wondering why "all lives matter" gets so much shit, how many times have you heard that phrase when it wasn't a response to "black lives matter"? I'm guessing somewhere in the range of "almost never" to "never". And as a response to "black lives matter", it is woefully misguided.

[7UVPZ2]

CNNs Chris Cuomo says it's intolerance if a 12 year old girl doesn't want to see a penis in the locker room.

https://twitter.com/ChrisCuomo/status/834745679394246658

Deplorable!

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black lives don't matter to #BLM unless they are killed by a white person, or a cop and their death can be used to push a political agenda

This is true. If they really cared why wouldn't they make a fuss with black people killing other black people?

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kolyaboo wrote:

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black lives don't matter to #BLM unless they are killed by a white person, or a cop and their death can be used to push a political agenda

This is true. If they really cared why wouldn't they make a fuss with black people killing other black people?

I'm going to call bullshit on that.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-black-crime-glanton-talk-20151206-story.html

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The assumptions are ludicrous. Yet you insist that African-Americans only rally against gun violence when a white police officer is involved. Maybe that's because you aren't paying attention.

Did you hear about the men of Alpha Phi Alpha, the nation's oldest black Greek-letter fraternity, marching down 79th Street last month to protest shootings in Chatham? How about the army of mothers in Englewood who gather at the scene of every shooting and patrol the streets of their neighborhood on foot? And what about the annual peace march in Grand Crossing that draws hundreds of South Siders onto the streets at the start of the school year?

This is a sample of what you overlooked while you were busy keeping tabs on the weekly death count. You need those numbers when spouting off that blacks kill more blacks than white cops do.

Here's Ta-Nehisi Coates with a big honkin' list full of such events.

Maybe, just maybe, the problem is not "black people don't care about black-on-black crime", but rather "you aren't paying attention".

Umm these are relatively small rallies. Naturally there are black people that care about violence. Good for them. They should. But attracting a massive crowd like the BLM movement? Nope.

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kolyaboo wrote:

Umm these are relatively small rallies. Naturally there are black people that care about violence. Good for them. They should. But attracting a massive crowd like the BLM movement? Nope.

I'd love to see you quantify this. But your claim is that they don't care. Even assuming that didn't paint an entire race as horrifically out of touch with the reality directly outside their doors, we actually have statistics showing this to be false.

And even beyond that, simply comparing the size of the protest doesn't tell the whole story. For example: do you think a protest is going to get the Crips to move out of your neighborhood? No. But it might get the local police department to think about changing some of their internal policies. These kinds of rallies are useful when it comes to changing the way law enforcement works, and influencing public opinion. For dealing with crime and violence, different methods are necessary, and different methods are used. To act like African-Americans just don't care about things like gang violence is just utterly bizarre. Where do you think these "black on black" crimes happen, rural Iowa?

When someone says #BLM doesn't care about black on black violence, it's not equivalent to saying black people don't care about black on black violence. It's disingenuous/duplicitous to call bullshit based on examples of black people rallying against black on black violence - the implication is that all black people identify with #BLM or that #BLM shares the same views/priorities as all black people but we know that's not the case, as there are critics of #BLM who are black.

With respect to your specific examples, #BLM is not alpha phi alpha. #BLM is not Ta-Nehisi Coates. What groups or individuals who may support BLM to various degrees care about is not necessarily equivalent to what #BLM cares about. I'm not making a statement about what #BLM does or doesn't care about, simply pointing out that you're once again reframing/twisting what people say to launch a rebuttal.

An honest rebuttal would require finding instances of the #BLM movement itself rallying against black on black violence, talking about it, protesting it, etc.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

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However, by that same logic, I feel most of the peaceful protests by BLM aren't exactly "legitimate." The peaceful ones are covered by First Amendment rights and I don't think they're illegal or anything, but I disagree with the underlying premise that discrimination against blacks is a widespread issue, within the police or otherwise. A few bad apples, yes, probably; fringe cops. I consider it sensationalist on their part to generalize such fringes onto the mass.

There are loads of studies examining the myriad ways in which African-Americans get shafted by the system. There's a reason there's such a massive gap in how much white people and black people trust the police. There are a lot of reasons that African-Americans suffer from such huge achievement, income, and wealth gaps, and it doesn't really tend to boil down effectively to culture or genetics. The idea that we're somehow "past" racism (and yes, this does include things like subconscious biases against African-Americans) is absurd. We've done the research. We know better. The question is not "is this happening" or "is this a problem" but "what can we do to fix it", and the fact that so many people still are hung up on the first two problems is disturbingly reminiscent of the "debate" on climate change.

Those gaps in education, income, and wealth are primarily geographical in nature. Our urban areas are blighted. African-Americans tend to be the dominant ethnic population in these areas, but if you're a white kid growing up in a "black area" it's the same shitty schools, shitty policing, shitty street culture.

I will admit there's some racism in this strange segregation that goes on. I grew up in and around Detroit, a city that's almost exclusively black within the city limits with lily-white suburbs. I lived on both sides of the quasi-famous 8 Mile Road. It was a rather racist place in terms of residential territory. But as I said earlier, racism predictably attracts counter-racism. Because of Detroit's economic plight, there really wasn't much business in the city proper; the center of the city was a war zone, the edges low-rent, almost exclusively black housing, and just outside the city were the actual jobs for the people who lived on the edges. You had thousands of black people going into white communities to work every day. Why didn't they settle in the residential areas closer to work? Rent pricing was a factor, yes, but not one that couldn't be overcome; the difference was slight. The truth is that Detroit's racism wasn't unidirectional, it was a two-way street, a relationship. The worst racism I saw was, sans one crazy landlord I briefly worked for and an instance of a white person getting shot by a black man while I sat on a couch (both previous OT threads), was against white people. Self-segregation is real.

Still, the plight of our urban areas, due to decades of Democratic control of municipal government, is regrettable. We could fix a lot with Republican mayors.

All this "black" and "white" talk sickens me. Yuck. Skin color shouldn't fucking matter. Disgusting that it does. I feel contaminated by the labels.

Lastly, maybe we should have that debate on climate change sometime. Of course global warming is a thing, but it's greatly exaggerated for doomsaying click-bait purposes, to the extent that it should have little to no impact on policy.