Q and A about what it means to follow Christ

As I've said 100x stop thinking and feel, which most ppl dp. Remember you were made perfect (human ego) and people piled the hate on you and the purpose of religion is to present the notion that you are loved even though you are "evil" so that you will forgive yourself and stop your self hate.

I see nothing wrong with faith as the person who is optimistic will have a better success rate at what they attempt than a person who is a defeatist. Faith is precursor for nearly everything we do if you think about it. A marriage, a business start up, anything.

Until it starts impacting me ofc

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innervation wrote:

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Upandatem wrote:

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Tribulation wrote:

We see science (string theory) elude to that the smallest bits of matter we can measure are just bits of vibrating energy, AKA sound. It is written that God spoke the world into existence.

We see science (thermodynamics) point to the chances of our world coming in to existence by means not of intelligent design to be wayyyyyyyyy less than statistical zero. I can't remember the exact number, but like 14 orders of magnitude less than statistical zero. I do, however, need to spend some time to find the research to back that up for reference.

I've heard it's somewhere around the order of magnitude of 1 in a hundred sextillion googols, or 1 in 10^123 all relevant constants considered. So that's a rough estimate of how many universes we'd need for the anthropic principle to be reasonable. String theory (wich you mention) has, as one of the predictions by its mathematics, mechanisms to populate the cosmic landscape with as many as 10^500 .

This is an example of what my response would have been if I hit 'submit' a few days ago. More generally, it is the historical habit of the religious to sit on the sidelines while scientists do the hard work of discovering how the universe works.

When a scientist has a clever idea for an experiment, the church says "haha no, we know that's not right because our ancient religious texts say 'x'"

When that scientist publishes the results of the experiment, and synthesizes their research and results with the work of others in the field, and across disciplines, the church says "haha stupid scientists, it's just a theory (sometimes while burning them at the stake), we know better because God told us"

Only when it becomes totally and completely uncontroversial that the scientists were right, the church turns an about face and says "well duh - it says right here in the ancient holy text that <insert ambiguous line that can be interpreted to mean any of 1,000 things> God was right all along! We knew it all along!"

It was that way with the big bang (see OP's string theory defense) as well as evolution (still in progress a bit depending on where you live), genetics, heliocentric solar system, and I could name many more.

I see your newest post to further explain your point here, but I'll just quote this one.

I am not sure if we can say this is just a product of religion. If we abstract things a little bit, this is a situation where people in a position of power are spreading their ideas by force, because they can because they are in a position of power. Sure, the people who were in a position of power at the time doing these things were Catholic (I think, correct me if I am wrong), but this concept is not new. Not by a long shot.

By the way, speaking about the big bang theory, it's the work of a Catholic priest :)

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Tribulation wrote:

Quite the opposite actually. I started a thread and threw a question out there for those interested. You were under no obligation to enter the thread, let alone comment.

You, however, are attempting to shove your beliefs down my throat.

Ever the delusional :)
Not once have I even mentioned what my acual beliefs are and I have no intention of doing so, they are mine and my business alone. You invited people to ask questions about YOUR beliefs (which I did), I don't see a thread talking about mine anywere... I even clearly said that I have absolutely nothing against your beliefs or those who follow any other religion, just the attitude...
You people are kinda like crossfit people, you never need to ask them, they will make sure you know they do crossfit within minutes of meeting them...
have a nice day

God, or rather His Son, is my savior. And that has been ever since I became a believer around 2002. So that's 28 years of being agnostic, and more than 14 years of being a Christian.

1.) I don't force my faith on others. I only talk about it if the subject comes up, and if someone is curious, I will share my faith. And if God presents that opportunity for someone who has an open heart, I will reach out to them. I don't initiate that, I let God bring people to me.

2.) I don't take my faith to "lord it over" others. We all have our personal struggles, stories, and background. We all sin, even if not all of us call it "sin". None of us are perfect.

3.) I can and do befriend and love others regardless of their faith or lack of faith.

4.) I do not regularly attend a "church", as my faith is stronger than any man-made construct related to Christianity.

5.) My wife is Catholic, and she's religious, and given my understanding of that "religion" and my dislike for it, I still love her and take her to her church sometimes.

6.) Working for a university, most of the people around me are both liberal and atheist or agnostic. I get along with them just fine, because life is more than who or what you identify with and believe in.

7.) I don't hate people for being gay, bi-sexual, etc., or believing differently than me. I also believe in scientific theory, evolution, etc. Yes, despite what extremists say, you can have faith and still value and appreciate science. I don't rally to inject prayer into schools, or rally against the teaching of evolution.

So please feel free to throw out any condemning viewpoints of what Christians are, as everyone is an individual, and there are probably more like me living in the world than like the stereotypes we build up in our minds. Extreme Christians may call me "luke-warm" and quote Bible passages to condemn me, but in my heart and my spirit I know where my faith is and need not fall victim to extremes, both cult-like Christians and pagan-like atheists.

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Tribulation wrote:

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Boem wrote:

This gonna be gud.

As for a question, why do you need/want god to exist?

Peace,

-Boem-

I never needed/wanted God to exist. I honestly didn't believe in God throughout my younger years. I grew up going to church every week, but there was nothing in my household that pointed to God except for two hours on one Sunday a week. So basically nothing. If anything it reinforced that God was just some made-up something for people to feel good about themselves.

I joined the Marine Corps at 18 (34 now), and had fun pretending to be a badass for some time after Sadam threw the scuds over. Long story short, I met a buddy while deployed who tried to followed Christ and his life was much more fulfilling than mine. Mine being spending $150 a night on shots of Patron Silver down in Pacific Beach and the like, having fun but still feeling like I was wasting my life.

I began to question God again and pretty soon God gave me an experience of "peace that surpasses all understanding". That was kind of an "oh crap" moment that was hard to ignore. Every day I pursue a friendship with God, I see Him work, and I just do not want to live without that. Life is too damn hard otherwise.

Tribulation,

I'm currently reading through the thread, but wanted to respond to you when I saw this.

A bit about me: I'm a Christian. I'm also a former Marine as well (I'm 29), and I fought in Iraq circa 2008.

I was a super enthusiastic PoE player until late last year. Something about the "Sacrifice to the Goddess" tokens really rubbed me the wrong way. One day, while I was staring at my stash, it occurred to me, "This is idolatry...."

As I said in a letter to Dan at GGG:

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Basically, you've set up a system where there's an in-game entity, a "Goddess" (not an issue for me -- Dom calls himself God, and that doesn't bother me at all... Bad guys are bad), and players "offering" tokens to it. The tokens are considered valuable, as finding them requires time, effort, opportunity, and skill.

Therein lies the issue. Think about it aesthetically, even. Imagine you're a player, hording "Offering to the Goddess" items in your stash, and what that looks like. I call a spade a spade.

I quit immediately.

The only reason I'm on this thread today is because I was messaging GGG's Dan (again) to see if my objections could be accommodated. (I was even willing, and still am willing, to donate to make this happen.)

Do you disagree with my assessment? For me, when I saw a whole bunch of these tokens in my stash, and when I ran my cursor over them seeing "Sacrifice to the Goddess" over and over again on my screen, I got sick.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Hi there. I've done a fair bit of writing on transfigurations of Christ in modern literature and the concept of kenosis (emptying, typically self, as a term for Christ emptying himself of his Divinity to be filled with what it means to be human). I've encountered the usual indoctrinated negative responses to these works (especially the last temptation by kazantzakis) but also believe anyone who shows great interest in Christ as a psychological entity, who deeply respects his ideas of both love and fear of God, his Father, is in their own way following his teachings...certainly more so than people who forget Christ himself wasn't a Christian and had little interest in establishing a church or temple.

So here's my question: do you think it's possible to follow Christ's teachings without being Christian? My own beliefs are far more...elusive than any one church or even major religion, but I strongly resonate with what the man said and taught, moreso than the prophet Mohammed (Pbuh) or the Buddha. Or do you believe a person can adhere to his teachings but still look forward to eternity in hell (which I don't believe in) if they don't put Jesus first and think of him as the way and the life?

Thanks for your time. Great thread.

Hey Charan,

I figured I'd give your question a go. I hope you don't mind.

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鬼殺し wrote:

So here's my question: do you think it's possible to follow Christ's teachings without being Christian?

The answer is no. Jesus came, saying, "Repent for the Kingdom of God is near, and believe!" If you do not do these things, you are not following Christ's teachings.

(Jesus, when asked, said that the two most important commandments are these: "Love the LORD your GOD with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength," and "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Jesus also said, "No one gets to the Father without first coming to the Son."

If you do not accept GOD the Father's testimony about Jesus -- "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!" and "This is my Son, whom I love. With him I am well pleased." -- then what expectation do you have of spending eternity with Him?)

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bwam wrote:

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Tribulation wrote:

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Boem wrote:

This gonna be gud.

As for a question, why do you need/want god to exist?

Peace,

-Boem-

I never needed/wanted God to exist. I honestly didn't believe in God throughout my younger years. I grew up going to church every week, but there was nothing in my household that pointed to God except for two hours on one Sunday a week. So basically nothing. If anything it reinforced that God was just some made-up something for people to feel good about themselves.

I joined the Marine Corps at 18 (34 now), and had fun pretending to be a badass for some time after Sadam threw the scuds over. Long story short, I met a buddy while deployed who tried to followed Christ and his life was much more fulfilling than mine. Mine being spending $150 a night on shots of Patron Silver down in Pacific Beach and the like, having fun but still feeling like I was wasting my life.

I began to question God again and pretty soon God gave me an experience of "peace that surpasses all understanding". That was kind of an "oh crap" moment that was hard to ignore. Every day I pursue a friendship with God, I see Him work, and I just do not want to live without that. Life is too damn hard otherwise.

Tribulation,

I'm currently reading through the thread, but wanted to respond to you when I saw this.

A bit about me: I'm a Christian. I'm also a former Marine as well (I'm 29), and I fought in Iraq circa 2008.

I was a super enthusiastic PoE player until late last year. Something about the "Sacrifice to the Goddess" tokens really rubbed me the wrong way. One day, while I was staring at my stash, it occurred to me, "This is idolatry...."

As I said in a letter to Dan at GGG:

"

Basically, you've set up a system where there's an in-game entity, a "Goddess" (not an issue for me -- Dom calls himself God, and that doesn't bother me at all... Bad guys are bad), and players "offering" tokens to it. The tokens are considered valuable, as finding them requires time, effort, opportunity, and skill.

Therein lies the issue. Think about it aesthetically, even. Imagine you're a player, hording "Offering to the Goddess" items in your stash, and what that looks like. I call a spade a spade.

I quit immediately.

The only reason I'm on this thread today is because I was messaging GGG's Dan (again) to see if my objections could be accommodated. (I was even willing, and still am willing, to donate to make this happen.)

Do you disagree with my assessment? For me, when I saw a whole bunch of these tokens in my stash, and when I ran my cursor over them seeing "Sacrifice to the Goddess" over and over again on my screen, I got sick.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

This is one of those situations where it is up to you. A personal conviction. I am having a hard time finding the exact scripture I am thinking of, but essentially, if you think something is a sin (even if it is not in reality), and you do it, it is accounted to you as a sin because God is looking at your heart.

Romans 14 touches on this, but in the context of food. Lots of Jews still thought it was a sin to eat the certain types of meat, despite what Jesus said in Matthew 15:11, and the apostle Paul getting the dream from God about eating "unclean" things being OK.

Specifically regarding the sacrifice tokens, I personally hadn't of thought about it that way--to me it was just another abstract concept like orbs that I needed to get to unlock another part of the game. When people were actually offering sacrifices to other gods back in the day, it was because they were trying to appease this "god". They were saying that God was not good enough, not big enough to do what needed to be done. They were making something else more important than God.

However, if it is a personal conviction to you, I urge you to stay away from that part of the game. If you feel it is OK, you could probably play other parts of the game for fun and just stay away from that part.

I don't want to tempt you or "be a stumbling block", however. Reason over these things yourself before acting on anything I say.

Something becomes Idolatry when it becomes more important than God. I had like a 10 year long fight wanting to play games, but wanting to follow God. Every time I would start playing games again, I would get to the point where it would be more important to me than God, taking up all my time instead of spending time pursuing a relationship with Him. I am finally to the point where I can dabble here and there in games for fun, but I want God in my life more than games.

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Tribulation wrote:

This is one of those situations where it is up to you. A personal conviction. I am having a hard time finding the exact scripture I am thinking of, but essentially, if you think something is a sin (even if it is not in reality), and you do it, it is accounted to you as a sin because God is looking at your heart.

Ahh, I had a feeling you might go this route. Indeed, distinguishing between good versus evil is entirely a matter of maturity.

My conscience is clean. I go this way, and I go with the Lord; I go that way, and I go with the Lord. No matter which way I go, the Lord is with me, and he is for me.

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Tribulation wrote:

Romans 14 touches on this, but in the context of food. Lots of Jews still thought it was a sin to eat the certain types of meat, despite what Jesus said in Matthew 15:11, and the apostle Paul getting the dream from God about eating "unclean" things being OK.

What about food sacrificed to idols? In Revelation, Jesus rebukes Thyatira for (in addition to sexual immorality) eating food sacrificed to idols.

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Tribulation wrote:

Specifically regarding the sacrifice tokens, I personally hadn't of thought about it that way--to me it was just another abstract concept like orbs that I needed to get to unlock another part of the game. However, if it is a personal conviction to you, I urge you to stay away from that. If you honestly feel it is OK, however, you could probably play other parts of the game for fun and just stay away from that part.

I, obviously, hadn't seen them that way either. But it occurred to me, rather suddenly, as I was sitting in front of the game, that I was collecting "Sacrifices to the Goddess" en masse, and what that might look like to the one who lives in my heart.

I'm not perfect, and I make a lot of errors -- I have to be corrected all the time, and am fully dependent on Grace. But I'm trying to be perfect, just as our heavenly Father is perfect. And, living in this world, it seems that we (believers) are constantly being barraged by the demand for compromise.

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Tribulation wrote:

I don't want to tempt you or "be a stumbling block", however. Reason over these things yourself before acting on anything I say.

Don't worry, the Lord is my guide; I will not stumble. He removes all obstacles from my path and makes my footing sure. I will never fall.

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Tribulation wrote:

Something becomes Idolatry when it becomes more important than God. I had like a 10 year long fight wanting to play games, but wanting to follow God. Every time I would start playing games again, I would get to the point where it would be more important to me than God, taking up all my time instead of spending time pursuing a relationship with Him. I am finally to the point where I can dabble here and there in games for fun, but I want God in my life more than games.

I disagree with your definition of idolatry. According to Merriam-Webster's second definition of "idolatry," idolatry can be "immoderate attachment... to something." That doesn't mean it has to be more important than God to you. (Laban's idols -- didn't Rachel steal them when she fled with Jacob and Leah, before Jacob wrestled with God?)

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bwam wrote:

Don't worry, the Lord is my guide; I will not stumble. He removes all obstacles from my path and makes my footing sure. I will never fall.

Amen! :-)

Those who put their trust in the Lord gain confidence from Him. When we remember that His power and love is greater than all, nothing is impossible for our soul. This is why doctors can't explain how people of strong faith have miraculous healing that defies all known science and logic. This is why people of such strong faith can drag themselves up from the worst situations in life to not only survive but continue to thrive. Faith is powerful, regardless of whether the entire world believes this or not.

EDIT: And you know, since I love science too, we really don't know how much our mind can influence our body at a molecular level, let alone atomic, or even sub-atomic. We have seen instances of this, but can't fully explain all of it yet (or ever?). There is only so far we can peer down in scale and peer up in scale until we can see no further. Science, throughout any point in time, has limits.