Q and A about what it means to follow Christ

"

Tribulation wrote:

"

solwitch wrote:

Hey you want to spread the word of God on the forums alright with me, I just wanted the community to know their being recruited that's all. Again I was right. I have to admit the title of the thread "Q ans A" really hid the overtone of your purpose.

Also you're not suppose to be playing PoE or any Christian for that matter. Again Christianity is a way of life... The devil comes in many forms and PoE dark eccentric style is no place for a Christian. Much of PoE design come from a polish artist who went mad. ^.^


Edit: Not implying that PoE is evil ;)

Playing a game is not evil ( I see your edit now ). There is an important concept here. It is our hearts that make something evil, not the act itself.

I can play games now and it isn't evil because they are in their rightful place. I pursue a relationship with God, work, invest time in my Wife and kids, and if I have any leftover time (which, sure, isn't much), I can enjoy playing games.

When I was addicted to play games, it wasn't good because playing games was my god (little 'g'). I was using games to get all my happiness out of life, which games were not meant to do, so I had to play more and more and more to feel that happiness. Everything else was second. Not good--the rest of my life went poorly.

Also, "recruited" is semantically incorrect. It has quite a negative connotation in this context. I am here to dispel any misconceptions about Christ and what it means to pursue a relationship with Christ. I can't make anyone follow God. I can't "recruit" anyone to be a Christian.

Then you're not a Christian more Agnostic. There's no middle, Christianity is a way of life.

"

Tribulation wrote:

"

blubbber wrote:

Q
Why are religious people (of any religion) always so hellbent on shoving their beliefs in everyones face? Is it so hard to just live your life, believe in whatever works for you, without having to impose your view on others?

Through the four books of the Gospel, as well as the book of Acts, we see Christ charge us with spreading the good news. That is, the news of Christ's sacrifice and that we can enter in to relationship with God.

yeah, that is about the answer I expected, confirming the unbelievable arrogance of religious people and their need to force their views down others throats. What you consider a fantastic book and good news, is just fairy tales and bollocks to me, so why can't you just enjoy your beliefs and leave it at that? Don't get me wrong, I have no issues whatsoever with what you believe in, I have many friends from all kinds of religions, I do have an issue though with your arrogance assuming your view and belief is the only correct one and feel the need to preach it!

"

Tribulation wrote:

"

Xavderion wrote:

OP, have you read "God's Debris" by Scott Adams? If yes, what do you think about it? If no, you should definitely read it. The author challenges conventional religion, but not in a Richard Dawkins fedora atheist way. He actually argues that god does indeed exist.

I have not. Reading a quick synopses it sounds...interesting. Does it imply that god is alive or dead after blowing himself up in the big bang in which parts of him are what make up the universe?

Alive. Kind of.

"

blubbber wrote:

"

Tribulation wrote:

"

blubbber wrote:

Q
Why are religious people (of any religion) always so hellbent on shoving their beliefs in everyones face? Is it so hard to just live your life, believe in whatever works for you, without having to impose your view on others?

Through the four books of the Gospel, as well as the book of Acts, we see Christ charge us with spreading the good news. That is, the news of Christ's sacrifice and that we can enter in to relationship with God.

yeah, that is about the answer I expected, confirming the unbelievable arrogance of religious people and their need to force their views down others throats. What you consider a fantastic book and good news, is just fairy tales and bollocks to me, so why can't you just enjoy your beliefs and leave it at that? Don't get me wrong, I have no issues whatsoever with what you believe in, I have many friends from all kinds of religions, I do have an issue though with your arrogance assuming your view and belief is the only correct one and feel the need to preach it!

Quite the opposite actually. I started a thread and threw a question out there for those interested. You were under no obligation to enter the thread, let alone comment.

You, however, are attempting to shove your beliefs down my throat.

"

Upandatem wrote:

"

Tribulation wrote:

We see science (string theory) elude to that the smallest bits of matter we can measure are just bits of vibrating energy, AKA sound. It is written that God spoke the world into existence.

We see science (thermodynamics) point to the chances of our world coming in to existence by means not of intelligent design to be wayyyyyyyyy less than statistical zero. I can't remember the exact number, but like 14 orders of magnitude less than statistical zero. I do, however, need to spend some time to find the research to back that up for reference.

I've heard it's somewhere around the order of magnitude of 1 in a hundred sextillion googols, or 1 in 10^123 all relevant constants considered. So that's a rough estimate of how many universes we'd need for the anthropic principle to be reasonable. String theory (wich you mention) has, as one of the predictions by its mathematics, mechanisms to populate the cosmic landscape with as many as 10^500 .

This is an example of what my response would have been if I hit 'submit' a few days ago. More generally, it is the historical habit of the religious to sit on the sidelines while scientists do the hard work of discovering how the universe works.

When a scientist has a clever idea for an experiment, the church says "haha no, we know that's not right because our ancient religious texts say 'x'"

When that scientist publishes the results of the experiment, and synthesizes their research and results with the work of others in the field, and across disciplines, the church says "haha stupid scientists, it's just a theory (sometimes while burning them at the stake), we know better because God told us"

Only when it becomes totally and completely uncontroversial that the scientists were right, the church turns an about face and says "well duh - it says right here in the ancient holy text that <insert ambiguous line that can be interpreted to mean any of 1,000 things> God was right all along! We knew it all along!"

It was that way with the big bang (see OP's string theory defense) as well as evolution (still in progress a bit depending on where you live), genetics, heliocentric solar system, and I could name many more.

"

solwitch wrote:

"

Tribulation wrote:

"

solwitch wrote:

Hey you want to spread the word of God on the forums alright with me, I just wanted the community to know their being recruited that's all. Again I was right. I have to admit the title of the thread "Q ans A" really hid the overtone of your purpose.

Also you're not suppose to be playing PoE or any Christian for that matter. Again Christianity is a way of life... The devil comes in many forms and PoE dark eccentric style is no place for a Christian. Much of PoE design come from a polish artist who went mad. ^.^


Edit: Not implying that PoE is evil ;)

Playing a game is not evil ( I see your edit now ). There is an important concept here. It is our hearts that make something evil, not the act itself.

I can play games now and it isn't evil because they are in their rightful place. I pursue a relationship with God, work, invest time in my Wife and kids, and if I have any leftover time (which, sure, isn't much), I can enjoy playing games.

When I was addicted to play games, it wasn't good because playing games was my god (little 'g'). I was using games to get all my happiness out of life, which games were not meant to do, so I had to play more and more and more to feel that happiness. Everything else was second. Not good--the rest of my life went poorly.

Also, "recruited" is semantically incorrect. It has quite a negative connotation in this context. I am here to dispel any misconceptions about Christ and what it means to pursue a relationship with Christ. I can't make anyone follow God. I can't "recruit" anyone to be a Christian.

Then you're not a Christian more Agnostic. There's no middle, Christianity is a way of life.

I need you to expound upon that. What point(s) make me agnostic?

"

innervation wrote:

"

Upandatem wrote:

"

Tribulation wrote:

We see science (string theory) elude to that the smallest bits of matter we can measure are just bits of vibrating energy, AKA sound. It is written that God spoke the world into existence.

We see science (thermodynamics) point to the chances of our world coming in to existence by means not of intelligent design to be wayyyyyyyyy less than statistical zero. I can't remember the exact number, but like 14 orders of magnitude less than statistical zero. I do, however, need to spend some time to find the research to back that up for reference.

I've heard it's somewhere around the order of magnitude of 1 in a hundred sextillion googols, or 1 in 10^123 all relevant constants considered. So that's a rough estimate of how many universes we'd need for the anthropic principle to be reasonable. String theory (wich you mention) has, as one of the predictions by its mathematics, mechanisms to populate the cosmic landscape with as many as 10^500 .

This is an example of what my response would have been if I hit 'submit' a few days ago. More generally, it is the historical habit of the religious to sit on the sidelines while scientists do the hard work of discovering how the universe works.

When a scientist has a clever idea for an experiment, the church says "haha no, we know that's not right because our ancient religious texts say 'x'"

When that scientist publishes the results of the experiment, and synthesizes their research and results with the work of others in the field, and across disciplines, the church says "haha stupid scientists, it's just a theory (sometimes while burning them at the stake), we know better because God told us"

Only when it becomes totally and completely uncontroversial that the scientists were right, the church turns an about face and says "well duh - it says right here in the ancient holy text that <insert ambiguous line that can be interpreted to mean any of 1,000 things> God was right all along! We knew it all along!"

It was that way with the big bang (see OP's string theory defense) as well as evolution (still in progress a bit depending on where you live), genetics, heliocentric solar system, and I could name many more.

I had to admit, I am confused. I am not following this set of comments :)

"

morbo wrote:

"

Aim_Deep wrote:

You atheists will lose by default. You dont breed and religious ppl will inherit societies by default. i.e. the future belongs to those who show up. http://observer.com/2017/01/muslim-population-europe-religion-growing-worldwide/

The problem is the welfare state. Highly intelligent people, who study for 20 years and work 10 hours a day, have cash but no time to breed. Meanwhile lower class people and religious people breed like crazy (especially in religions like islam, that still applies old biblical logic: "more men == more swords" & "wombs are our weapons").

In a welfare state there is no "culling of the herd" through evolution and the highly intelligent rich guy, who has no kids, is paying welfare support for "Mohhamed" and his thee wives and 10 kids. The west has become decadent, complacent and self-loathing. It will be destroyed and with it all the liberties that our grandfathers fought for.

Unless we drastically diminish the welfare state, but I think that Europe is already at a point of no return.

Its not just Islam. Christianity is growing worldwide as well. Point of the article was religion will dominate for the foreseeable future simply due to the future belongs to those who show up, and religious ppl do show up 5-6 kids at a time. Secularist Westerners are living in a bubble and will be extinct soon. You can't blame socialism which I detest as well but the non socialist - say Somalia is very religious so that doesn't wash. It's just demographics. Its just a numbers game at the end of the day.

Be fruitful and multiply all these religions tell followers while westerns play video games. Go trans, gay, single for life, or other non-high progeny life styles which spell their doom.

"

Tribulation wrote:

I had to admit, I am confused. I am not following this set of comments :)

To stick with just one example, heliocentrism:

"

In February 1616, the Inquisition assembled a committee of theologians, known as qualifiers, who delivered their unanimous report condemning Heliocentrism as "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture."

"

In March, after the Inquisition's injunction against Galileo, the papal Master of the Sacred Palace, Congregation of the Index, and Pope banned all books and letters advocating the Copernican system, which they called "the false Pythagorean doctrine, altogether contrary to Holy Scripture."[87][88] In 1618 the Holy Office recommended that a modified version of Copernicus' De Revolutionibus be allowed for use in calendric calculations, though the original publication remained forbidden until 1758

"

Galileo was found guilty, and the sentence of the Inquisition, issued on 22 June 1633,[51] was in three essential parts:

Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy," namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the center of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse, and detest" those opinions.[52]
He was sentenced to formal imprisonment at the pleasure of the Inquisition.[53] On the following day this was commuted to house arrest, which he remained under for the rest of his life.
His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future

This is stage one of religion meeting new science - abject terror, denial, and lashing out with punishment.

Following this is stage two. Gradual acceptance, or at least tolerance of the differing viewpoint as theologians resign themselves to finding a way to reconcile reality with their book.

"

In the mid-eighteenth century the Church's opposition began to fade. An annotated copy of Newton's Principia was published in 1742 by Fathers le Seur and Jacquier of the Franciscan Minims, two Catholic mathematicians, with a preface stating that the author's work assumed Heliocentrism and could not be explained without the theory. In 1758 the Catholic Church dropped the general prohibition of books advocating Heliocentrism from the Index of Forbidden Books.[97] Pope Pius VII approved a decree in 1822 by the Sacred Congregation of the Inquisition to allow the printing of heliocentric books in Rome.

We are now, and have been for a while in stage 3. Religious braggadocio. You'd be hard pressed to find any pastor, priest, or rabbi who doesn't say "duh, of course the sun is the center of the solar system. It says in Genesis 1 that God made light, then formed the Earth! We've known that forever you silly scientists! If you would have just read God's word from the beginning, you would have known too!"

I find this objectionable and offensive, because they actually do worse than sit on the sidelines - they go out of their way to impede the work scientists do through compulsion and coercion, only to claim the eventual victories of knowledge and progress as their own.

"

Aim_Deep wrote:

Its not just Islam. Christianity is growing worldwide as well. Point of the article was religion will dominate for the foreseeable future simply due to the future belongs to those who show up, and religious ppl do show up 5-6 kids at a time. Secularist Westerners are living in a bubble and will be extinct soon. You can't blame socialism which I detest as well but the non socialist - say Somalia is very religious so that doesn't wash. It's just demographics. Its just a numbers game at the end of the day.

Be fruitful and multiply all these religions tell followers while westerns play video games. Go trans, gay, single for life, or other non-high progeny life styles which spell their doom.

If you separate the concept of theism (belief in god) from religion (worship of the sacred), then I don't think there's ever been any success of a non-religious culture throughout history.

I identify myself as a religious atheist. What's funny is that most people think this is a contradiction in terms, or think by "religious" I mean "militant," even though atheistic religions are readily accepted conceptually by millions in popular fiction: nobody bats an eye at the teachings of the Jedi or the Church of the Holy Light, both of which reject theism while clearly believing strongly in sanctity and holiness, in both thought and action. (I find it humorous how the linked article says the Church of Light is "really more a philosophy than a religion... because it doesn't involve reverence for a person or even a being," when the concepts of prayer, dogma and providence are in full force. Cognitive dissonance.)

As I've said earlier in this thread (edit: or was it another thread?) moral relativism — that is, the abandonment of religion — is not the same as atheism, but the correlation between the two is destroying cultures where atheism becomes prominent. As a culture, I believe we can exist without God, but I do not think we will persist without a profound appreciation for the holy. It is that appreciation which spurs a people to positive action against the doom of apathy and nihilism.