It's Not Your Money

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Cataca wrote:

Its not an option.

Don't have time to reply to the rest of your written ggg article, but the above is incorrect.
It is an option, just contact your bank.

Let's not forget the reason why free to play games exist in the first place -> piracy.

FTP and the financial models that support those products are simply a result of people not wanting to pay for a product.

I bought a car from Mazda because I like their product. Do I have a right to dictate to Mazda how they use the profits from that car sale for future product development? Absolutely not.

Nothing different here.

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Sexcalibure wrote:

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grepman wrote:

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SilentStorm625 wrote:

but it is my money

it WAS your money

But as i said

The money you donate is always still half your money since you still have 100% of the money you have not given yet

if they use the money you gave as you thought/wished they do, you will spend that money

but if they dont, you are most likely not to donate it

so in the end they are losing potential donation acting like "stfu its not your money anymore"

eh but its like that all time.

a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. when they have your money its more concrete than potential money unless the potential sum is huge (ie, at least 1k, maybe more)

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grepman wrote:

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Sexcalibure wrote:

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grepman wrote:

it WAS your money

But as i said

The money you donate is always still half your money since you still have 100% of the money you have not given yet

if they use the money you gave as you thought/wished they do, you will spend that money

but if they dont, you are most likely not to donate it

so in the end they are losing potential donation acting like "stfu its not your money anymore"

eh but its like that all time.

a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. when they have your money its more concrete than potential money unless the potential sum is huge (ie, at least 1k, maybe more)

But all the xbox money is only potential. In this scenario though they weren't risking anything as its all been funded unknowingly by pc supporters.

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plodd wrote:

But all the xbox money is only potential. In this scenario though they weren't risking anything as its all been funded unknowingly by pc supporters.

we weren't talking about xbox specifically here though. more of a 'future potential to get money if actions correspond to consumer desired direction and make him spend more'. which is true in most instances of donations to companies in general, not just GGG.

the potential profit from xbox crowd is a whole another topic imo

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Cataca wrote:

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Perq wrote:

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Imaginaerum wrote:

I keep seeing people hilariously say that GGG is spending 'their money' on some form of update they're unhappy with.

Unless you're a communist, in which case this concept is hard to grasp, it shouldn't be difficult to know that once you transfer money to someone else, it is no longer yours. Maaybe if you're Ruler of Wraeclast you get some say somewhere but how many of you are there?

Now of course I would never lessen my experience of this game by playing it on a scrub system like the Xbox one, but there are those types of scrubs out there and I'm sure it'll be pretty successful. So what will probably happen is GGG's funding goes up, even if your list of supporter titles doesn't, and they keep doing what they want. When it comes to GGG, that's all I ask for. Developers that cater get on my nerves

You are aware that people who invest big % of total company's budget get to decide what that company will do, right? Even more - they get part of the money company earn's.

But they transfored munies for company, so munies is company noa, righ?

No. In case of GGG, we were told what GGG is going to spend Supporter's money for. We asked for trade, we asked for many other things. Instead, we get a Xbox port which nobody asked for.

We still have game breaking bugs, like instances of 30c maps being destroyed for no reason (together with Cadiro, who has 4ex map for sale, AH KEK, HOW FUNNY), crashes and all kind other shit. This is why people are concerned.

At moments like this I kind of regret spending a-little-too-much-money. GGG still haven't delivered on so many fronts, yet they go for something that is historically known to fail for aRPGs.

Wow. You think you are entitled to a cut of GGGs profit because way back when you participated in crowdfunding?

Not only does crowdfunding not work that way, "investing" as you put it does not work like that either.
The only way you'd ever be able to "invest big % of total company's budget" is if said company lets you. In the form of shares and bonds.

Just throwing money at a company, does not entitle you to anything. If you go to say, Burgerking and order a million burgers, then yes, you gave them a big percentage of their annual income. But that doesnt entitle you to anything but a heart attack.

Only if you spend said money on Burgerking bonds, will you get a cut of their income, because a bond practically sells you a part of a company.

Give me a reason to invest in anything if they don't give me a say in anything or share part of their profits.

Give me a reason to support GGG if they cannot keep their promises and do whatever the fuck they want with the supporter's money.

You can claim whatever you want about what company can and cannot do, but if I have no reason to give them any money, I won't.

Matter of fact is that GGG let down in being open about what they are doing. We do not demand GGG to give back shares of their profits - we only expected them to continue doing the work they promised to do.
If you argue that we have no right to hold them to their promises, I'll simply stop giving them money - then finally I won't have to worry about holding anyone to anything.

I'm unsure if GGG likes that idea, tho.

Give you a reason to support?

There are ONLY reasons to support the game. Stash tabs, armour sets, skill effects, support packs, Chris Wilson, skin transfers, pets, hideout decorations, the list goes on.

No idea what you're on about.

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Perq wrote:

Give me a reason to invest in anything if they don't give me a say in anything or share part of their profits.

GGG is not on the stock market, you cannot invest in them unless you are a silent partner or something. Just like buying products from any other company out there does not entitle you to profit cuts or a say in said company, buying supporter packs does not.

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Give me a reason to support GGG if they cannot keep their promises and do whatever the fuck they want with the supporter's money.

What promise?

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You can claim whatever you want about what company can and cannot do, but if I have no reason to give them any money, I won't.

That is your right as a consumer, and you totally shouldnt feel forced to spend money on something you dont want to. Thats kind of obvious.

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Matter of fact is that GGG let down in being open about what they are doing. We do not demand GGG to give back shares of their profits - we only expected them to continue doing the work they promised to do.

Keep developing PoE you mean? They are doing that, moreover they are investing supporter money in something that will give aditional revenue streams to the company, while still developing PoE. Its a different platform, but that platform may or may not (depending on how succesful they are) finance aditional dev teams that actively work on PoE. In the end, this will only benefit the game long term.

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If you argue that we have no right to hold them to their promises, I'll simply stop giving them money - then finally I won't have to worry about holding anyone to anything.

Your money does not entitle you to anything. If you feel discontent about PoE, stop throwing money at them. But dont expect that buying supporter packs magically makes you a shareholder, because it doesnt.

You both missed the point, assuming the worst and started explaining things I did not mean. :P

Lets try again:

You see a new, cool, shiny smartphone coming out. It is crowdfunded. Developer promises that he will keep on updating it's OS until XYZ.
People support him, get the phone in their hands.
2 years pass, phone's OS still have critical problems, few of them exploded, others has to use third-part applications to send text messages.
Developer starts investing money he got from crowdfunding into something else, arguing it will increase the cash flow, so that he can make the phone even better. He also says that these problems are being taken care of by other people.
Developer asks supporters to give him more money.
Question:
Is there any reason for supporters to do so?

Also, I'm still not so sure GGG shares your opinion about stopping throwing money at them. I'm quite sure they started developing Xbone version for that very reason.

Doesn't that come in a little bit of a conflict with each other? And what if Xbone version doesn't generate enough revenue (if even enough to make it profitable)? :P

Btw: You seem to be saying that GGG is investing money, while completely ignoring the fact investment can fail, and instead of generating additional revenue, it can drag whole company with it. And you can't tell me it did not happen before. :P

What critical elements are currently missing from PoE to make it a wholesome game then? The only features i am missing are trade improvements and a MTX reclaim button (and a sortable mtx tab), but i think the core game is solid. Thinking that they'll release the xbox version when 3.0 hits, i think that they'll at least implement the trade improvements.


And sure, it is an investment, and it can obviously go south. But that is none of my buiseness.
GGG should have done risk assessment and weighted the gains versus the losses they'd make. But that is their cross to bear. I personally assume that they'd not make a move like that if it could potentially sink their company.