GGG WHY POE TRADE?
" This isn't going to happen, and shouldn't. I would not expect to see ANY major changes to the way the system works. The things I would expect to see would be more along the lines of integrating the current system in a better way. Things like eliminating price manipulation, etc... that isn't likely to happen. That has to happen on the community side, and it won't. So... QQ on U MAD?
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Why poe trade? A few reasons.
1)Established base has a vocal following for inconvenient trading. Anything to throttle it or limit supply is seen a plus for the game because of the extra interaction. Even if it is just a copy/paste and a flew clicks per item most of the time. Plenty of people find that fun. I don't, but i can see why other people would. 2)Its a small f2p game that's slowly made its way back to mainstream. Small games tends to have small company mindset, which requires a ton of player interaction and players making content and tools for the game. Keeps the community interested and engaged. Stuff like poe trade. So rather than developing inhouse tools for trading, they're invested in making backend improvements to allow players to make powerful tools. 3)Though trading is supported, they can't really design loot drops around having instant one sided transactions. Its a loot based game, so having loot instantly available ingame would create too many drop balance headaches. It also makes other playstyles more valid (like solo self found, guild/friend only trading, etc) because region wide trade has no internal support outside of chat spam. 4)Poe monetization is heavily reliant on stash tabs. Having 1 off trade tied how they make money just makes it even harder to change. Can also avoid the dreaded p2w black eye by having premium enhancements be the gateway to power. Still the case, but not having it internally supported (and having pvp not be too popular) goes a long way. I know for a fact I wouldn't have installed the game if it had that kind of debate around it. |
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Don't really need an AH, just an official GGG poe.trade website equivalent but without the data being public so peoples can't make private indexers that responds faster than poe.trade so no one gets an unfair advantage. Now that would be perfect.
Then you add something in-game that allows you to do trades without being in the same instance so that you can trade stuff in other leagues without having to switch toon. Somehting like: 1. You get a whisper from someone willing to trade. 2. You left click his name in chat, and select trade from the contextual menu. 3. It automatically opens a trade window on the left and on the right, your stash of the league the guy wants to trade in. 4. Super simple, super efficient. Those 2 things would make poe trading 100% perfect. Last edited by Krayken#1299 on Dec 22, 2016, 1:40:55 PM
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" Excellent post. |
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There are huge differences between the D3 AH and Poe.Trade. For one thing, GGG doesn't get a cut. Second, there is no RMT involved, it's pure player trading. There is no valid objection to making it more convenient for players to do what they can already do in the game. I totally support the idea of bringing Poe.Trade in House. That with so complete this game.
Man does not stop playing because he grows old. He grows old because he stops playing. - Oliver Wendell Holmes
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I'd prefer to leave the item search system in the hands of the players. This allows for more innovation. It's obvious why GGG hasn't implemented their own system: poe.trade is better than anything they could have and will ever come up with.
IGN: Warp_Nine
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Sure, but why not implement it into the game?
or something similar. is trading going to change at all in the future? a comment from GGG would be nice one way or the other. |
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FFS, the HA and even the bots are not even close to the reason why WOW has been in decline from a lot of millions of users to "just a few millions", on subscription. Yeah, such failure...
The reason POE can be fucked over with a couple bots on a tool so useless as POE.TRADE is, is just cause the PLAYER BASE IS SO FUCKING SMALL, THE MARKET CAN ACTUALLY BE ABUSED. In a WOW, or any other game with, 1) decent number of players and overall activity, 2) an item system that's not as shitty as D3 was (is), more trade is good. 3) TL:DR: way way down the wall of text. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why? 1) If there's enough players, and social interaction, and even an AH where you see who, or at least which toon puts the items for sale, and in a game where you can send offline messages and such, where there's enough people to actually have active guilds, YOU CAN ACTUALLY INTERACT WITH OTHER PLAYERS IN A MEANINGFUL WAY. Maybe not during the transaction, but after and because of it, you can contact the person, you can talk about what's he's "business", what do you need, if he can farm what you need on top of what he normally does and put a price. Both parties get what they wanted, the buyer gets something the other player maybe did not see as valuable to sell, and he gets to buy something otherwise it may be very well unlikely to be found for sale, or with those specific parameters. That's common practice in every game with functional social and trade tools. THAT'S REAL FUCKING PLAYER INTERACTION. In POE.TRADE, today I went to check the Tabulas, the first on the list, one dude listing the tabula for 1 ALT. Like, yeah, that's so funny, useful and satisfying. On the Humility side, same dude, listing the cards at 1 ALT. He's a real player (fuck me). Plus, when there's enough people trading, you just can't corner the market. You will get suck dry faster than you can make your profit. Even with 10 to 20 Tabulas at the 9 to 10 chaos mark, every optimistic idiot listing at 15 or 20 chaos will never sell shit, unless they are willing and capable of buying every fucking tabula listed for less, and every fucking card priced accordingly. Even then, there's not just one dude targeting those items, so they are going to have to fight between them to make the profit, and in a league you don't have a potential unlimited income, and you have limited time, since as the league moves on, players stop giving a fuck, stop selling, stop buying, stop playing. In short, the idea of one person or small group of individuals working together with the goal of making a profit off the manipulation of some items, GETS HARDER THE MORE PLAYERS INVOLVED IN TRADE YOU HAVE ON YOUR GAME. The bots can give you a huge advantage only in fringe situations. Which can be avoided with a HA (or wrv you wanna call it, as long as it has at least an auto buy out system and is integrated in the game so every player knows it exist and should be used since the game is not balanced for solo self found). In this case, our fellow 1 ALT per Tabula, has to buy every tabula in the server listed from 9 to 10, and all the way up to the price he thinks he can sustain, only to sell less, because the price is higher, so the margin to make a profit gets fucked. If every player knows about trade and has the information and the tools in the game, a bigger number of player will trade. Which means more cads and tabulas, listed bellow our friend mr 1 ALt per Tabula, instead of being vendored or stashed till the end of time, which in turn he would have to buy in order to keep his position. Now, with the current system, POE,TRADE is just a fishing Pool for sad sharks looking for newer players, who either list items at stupid prices because they have no real source of information (an HA type of system is also a source of information since your item is out of your control once you decide to put it on the market, and therefore you won't risk selling one tabula at 1 ALT just for fun), or get scammed in chat into a bad deal (good old personal cons at work). If you think you can manipulate the whole market in an automated system then either the player base is small, the drop rates are off, or the entire game economy needs to be fixed. If none of those is true, then, prices will rise at first, like they do now and in real life, and eventually they would decline, as they do even in real life because there's more people with the same items and the intention of making some currency from them, which only leaves the option of listing at a lower price, or never sell your shit. On top of that, every person listing an item at x price, gets feedback. If the item sells in seconds, next time maybe that dude will up the price. If no one buys the item, then he will chack if his item is in fact shit or not, and eventually correct the offer. But we are talking about real trades, not this stupid troll listing with no drawback. BOTS WERE A PROBLEM FOR BLIZZARD, NOT FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS. Most player learn fast how to trade, how to deal with the HA, and how to use the rest of the tools we don't have in POE. Normal people can find a guild, a group of friends, a group of trusted people. Here this is less likely by orders of magnitude. The idea that bots are the end of the world and prohibit any kind of development in the trade system is just BULLSHIT OR THE SYMPTOM OF SOME FLAW IN THE GAME DESIGN ITSELF. A BIT MORE: the bots in those heavy economy games, do not target the HA as a primary source of income. If you are gonna make profit this way, you are better off coding bots that actually do the repetitive tasks needed to get the items that give the best margins, and then you just sell more than anyone else could in their right mind, cause you didn't have to do the farming in the first place. All this shit, involves a market, outside of the developers control, where people makes money off the game, while the developer sees nothing. A black market pay to win sort of speak. If you think in WOW at is peak, there was a lot of players, who were paying a subscription from the start, willing to pay for in game currency or items just cause it's so cool (wrv). WANNA TALK RIOT: you see bots playing league? why? leveling accounts to sell, in a big part easy. Does that affect players? not really, that hurts Riot sells of exp boots tho. Do you see the trend here? Same with boosted accounts. There's a small market for boosted accounts, a.k.a., accounts that have higher skill bullshit shiny shit, the individuals paying could not achieve by playing the game, but they think it's worth to show off a lie. Again, does that affect the players? A little bit, since those players would be placed in games above their skill level. But in the end, that happens anyways for a lot of reasons, the big affected part here is Riot, because they see no money for that, and they take a hit in the credibility of their "fair and competitive" MMR system (which is shit anyways, but the ilusion is part of the product Riot actually makes money from). SOME CS:GO: with betting the numbers went to the sky, but the idea remains. The objective is never the value of the skins, we are not talking about kids who want knives for swag. The objective is the money those skins "supposedly" are worth in "real" steam "money", and to integrate those skin hoarding scams / services, depending on how hard were they just playing casino or going full con mode, with system to get that "value" out of the hands of Valve and into their real life pockets. Do you get that, they don't want WOW gold, they want the money they can make from it. They don't want to level their personal accounts faster, they want to sell accounts for people willing to pay not to have to do that. Fuck the skins, they want the dollars those skins are worth in steam wallet "money", but in real life money, in their real life bank accounts. No one takes that kind of effort in order to get for free the new DLC some shitty steam game has made. They want money, and they want it out the systems hands. If there is no such a market, and given the small size of the POE community, the "scary bad men" couldn't give less of a fuck, and for sure won't bother with this game at all. Think of how hard it is to get into the trading in POE, think of how small the whole player base is, think then how small the actual number of people involved in POE's trade is... It does not sound like fertile ground for illegal activity... Some kids get more exalts using bots and playing the market because it so fucking small the can actually make INGAME profit? Good for them, who gives a fuck, if the game experience for the vast majority of the players gets improved a fucking lot, there is no real problem. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) The only point the "oh no trade, bad, GGG said so" white knights have, is that more people trading, means more items in the hands of more players. In D3 the item system is so stupid simple, if you can get in a few minutes the few items you need, then you may as well cheat, because you are gonna get bored so fast, you are not playing that shit again. There's no reason to. You got the item your class need, congrats, you won. Play some HS please. Now, we assume POE has more layers. We want to believe we have more possibilities. And if that's true, then the ability of getting the items you want to try in your new build faster, or experimenting with crafting, can only improve your satisfaction with the game, because maybe you discover you can make the build better, or you have another build in mind, and so on. In D3 some gear has the name of skills, are unique to the class said skills belong, and that's all folks. That¿s way D3 sucked cock even after they removed the RM HA and all that shit. The game was crap all along, the HA just moved things along. The same test can be done with POE, if the fact that you can get the gear for a character you want to play faster, makes the game dumb, then the game was dumb all along. It was just an illusion behind the apparent complexity of the tree, and all the supposed decisions you think you made. If POE can't handle a faster way to get, buy, craft, or wrv, gear adequate to the toons you want to experiment with, or if that makes you get tired faster and give up the game, then POE is as shitty as D3, but with a better cover, and a lot of weird words and rules, with the only purpose of hiding the fact that the game lacks real depth. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) TL:DR: If the process of farming like a robot is what you get out of POE and you are afraid that more trade will ruin you experience because you get bored once you get to the point you set as a goal with that character, but you don't really end up enjoying playing with him. Then my friend, in your own eyes, POE as a game is shit, or you just want the mindless grind out of it. Some of us want to fuck around with every node in the tree, but not at this stupid pace. If more trade is bad, then this game has nothing real going on for it. There's just no cake. So please, stop with the D3, HA, yadayada, BULLSHIT, and get real with what is it you really want. And fuck you. |
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" PoE is an oasis in a desert of generic console crap. (There are still a few gems here and there on PC but the golden years of PC gaming are behind us.) No doubt this game has depth in it's gameplay. Additionally the game is also an action rpg where it wants to give their players a sense of achievement when acquiring items. Items that can open up new builds, items that let them advance further ingame. You will be taking all of that away with an automated system. And simply because a small minority wants instant gratification. So I don't agree with your reasoning. Heart of Purity
Awarded 'Silverblade' to Talent Competition Winner 2020. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDFO4E5OKSE I am one of the rare fair players/collectors. |
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I took a year off the game and mostly played destiny and Diablo 3 in the meantime. Back then I think concurrent players on steam was around 3-8 thousand.
Trading was tougher as the player base was much smaller. I am really surprised by how much easier it is to buy stuff now. I like it. |
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