Fallout 4....the disappontment

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Miazga wrote:

What I want to say is that you should give mods a try if you dont enjoy vanilla skyrim, same applies to Fallout 4

^this
Especially UI/inventory mods, Bethesda is so bad in this field it looks like they are deliberately making inventory management as much horrible as it can possibly be done.

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raics wrote:

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

- Terrible skill system (what you get to choose from when leveling up)

The system itself is pretty good actually as a mix of the one in previous games and perk system, the one used before was bad because it detracted from the gameplay experience too much. I suppose it's nice if you like to have something to fiddle with but it doesn't really work with you, got to fight it all the way. For me, it also detracts from the immersion, if Morrowind was an MMO it would be the absolute dumbest looking one on the market because everyone would hop around like rabbits or swim into a conveniently placed rock for hours.

Yeah okay we're talking about the stat system where you do tasks to improve your stats which can result in small/moderate buffs to your character once the stats exceed certain thresholds, right?

While some people may choose to do the things you mentioned, those that choose to play the game as it was intended to be played and didn't go completely out of their way to max out their characters with boring mindless activities... would feel like they were making greater character progression than in Skyrim. In Skyrim you really had to go out of your way to truly benefit from the system and they removed the perks associated with it (I think, been a long time since I played) which also crippled the sense of character progression.

If I run/jump/swim everywhere I expect to get more efficient at those tasks, and it feels really good to have my character perform better at these basic tasks. It feels like my character is getting truly better at day to day activities. Since Skyrim ditched Acrobatics I have to use a different example: In Skyrim you might level up your Strength the more you hit enemies in the game but I don't believe it is represented in any way other than the enemies health depleting quicker. This is how it feels for everything you can buff up by repeating actions in Skyrim, a numbers game that doesn't really give you any sense of character progress other than your character sheet looking nicer.

Again, it has been a fair while since I played the game. I played Skyrim when it first came out and I have always regretted that I somehow, for some reason, accumulated 195 hours in the thing. I must have left the game idle for long periods of time or some such, it wasn't 165 hours of really enjoying the game, it wasn't a abysmal experience either, it was just mundane/bland. again, 195 hours, either Steam is lying to me or I fell asleep for a week with the game running the entire time. I can not fathom how I played it that much considering my feelings towards the game after giving up on it. I must've been really influenced by the hype bandwagon revolving around the game that I was blinded from how mediocre the experience really was until I finally took a long break from it. A friend was also playing it too and we were chatting about our experiences in the game so that also would've contributed to why I persisted.

If you've been spending a while playing with mods you should go back to the vanilla game and really give it a good hard look. The vanilla experience is shit, it can be easy to forget just how shitty it is when you've been playing a superior modded version of the game for a while.

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

If you've been spending a while playing with mods you should go back to the vanilla game and really give it a good hard look. The vanilla experience is shit, it can be easy to forget just how shitty it is when you've been playing a superior modded version of the game for a while.

I know, that's exactly why I won't do it :)

I'm thinking of Bethesda's games more of a 'platform' than anything else, and Skyrim has a pretty good platform overall even though I'd agree the combat feels crappy as hell in every single game they make, you're fighting the game as much as enemies. If Skyrim had combat like Dark Messiah of M&M it wold be awesome.

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kolyaboo wrote:

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Bethesda hasn't had a good game since Oblivion Expansions.

You didn't like Skyrim? Just curious, why?

I wasn't able to make my no armor, unarmed monk character.

Even though there were very binary, I miss Athletics/Acrobatics

I didn't like the skill system, though the idea was cool

Spells were pretty boring

No Spell Crafting

Bad enchanting, soul stones were too easy to get

Did not like the story at all, and couldn't find really any good side quest chains( though there probably are a few)

Sneaking is a busted system as always

I disliked the UI quite a bit

Mods should enhance a game experience, not make the game enjoyable

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Einkil wrote:

I wasn't able to make my no armor, unarmed monk character.

Played with an unarmed khajit once though he did wear armor, killing some things took a lot of time but it was possible, it was fun at least.

Got a bunch of valid complaints there, most of them can be addressed with mods though, there are mods for more interesting skills, better magic, immersive combat and whatnot. I mentioned this 'community polish' development model in another thread, related to poetrade because one of the most essential features of the game is community driven. There are pros and cons, of course, and one of the most important cons is the game will suck for those that don't want to bother with community tools.

compare Witcher 3 to fallout 4...

W3 is superior in EVERY single way and was made with less money....

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raics wrote:

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Einkil wrote:

I wasn't able to make my no armor, unarmed monk character.

Played with an unarmed khajit once though he did wear armor, killing some things took a lot of time but it was possible, it was fun at least.

Got a bunch of valid complaints there, most of them can be addressed with mods though, there are mods for more interesting skills, better magic, immersive combat and whatnot. I mentioned this 'community polish' development model in another thread, related to poetrade because one of the most essential features of the game is community driven. There are pros and cons, of course, and one of the most important cons is the game will suck for those that don't want to bother with community tools.

I tried it out as an Argonian and it just felt so slow.. I mean, unarmed was never fast (especially in Morrowind since it dealt stamina damage before health damage), but it still felt worse in Skyrim since the unarmed damage bonus was under heavy armor iirc. I'd normally make a highly acrobatic fast moving martial artist with alchemical and restorative capabilities, I would be able to spend all my money on reagents, and have not have my carrying capacity bogged down by armor/weapons. Not quite able to achieve that in Skyrim.
I did Three basic builds, only one of which I completed the game on. Did a sword+board, full-mage, and rogue, only completing it with sword+board. Did each of their respective guild side
quest lines, and none of them really intrigued me enough to complete the quest lines

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Einkil wrote:

Did each of their respective guild side quest lines, and none of them really intrigued me enough to complete the quest lines

Right, I did say in another thread about rpg recommendations that Bethesda's games always felt kinda bland. And it made sense, it's an open world game so you spend too much time and resources on shaping the world and fixing a fuckton of bugs that traditionally plague open world games because there's too much crap that can go wrong.
But then Witcher 3 happened and said fuck you wannabes, this is how you make an open world game. Who said they can't have great quests, memorable characters, good combat and a strong main plot line. It was even fairly bug-free, I played it after a few patches and haven't ran into anything major, certainly nothing that would make me use console commands to finish the quest.

Divinity OS also had entertaining quests, help a tom woo his favorite kitty, unmask a rotten mine foreman and then encourage the miner's window to incite a crowd into lynching him on the spot, run all over looking for a whore desperate enough to entertain a lonely bridge troll. And the reaction of a local werecat wizard to completing the cat quest is gold, you can tell they had a lot of fun making the game. Not quite as good as quests in Divine Divinity but still pretty good.

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DDusk wrote:

compare Witcher 3 to fallout 4...

W3 is superior in EVERY single way and was made with less money....

I was going to say "except reducing enemies into gore piles" but then remembered about that Signs crit mutation from the last DLC :D

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raics wrote:

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

If you've been spending a while playing with mods you should go back to the vanilla game and really give it a good hard look. The vanilla experience is shit, it can be easy to forget just how shitty it is when you've been playing a superior modded version of the game for a while.

If Skyrim had combat like Dark Messiah of M&M it wold be awesome.

Surely you had meant to suggest Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen, right? It would be the perfect combat upgrade from what they have now without being too huge of a departure.