[Feedback] You fucked up chaos damage and low life.

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diablofdb wrote:

The whole point of chaos dmg is, it pass throught energy shield so of course it will hurt low life builds that doesn't uses Shav.


And of course every build need a weakness. That's where I stand.

In game design and in life in general, it helps to see things in a spectrum rather than in black and white.

Chaos damage was already a weakness before the latest patches, and now, if Boem's testing is to be believed, it's even more of a weakness. There is such a thing as a soft-counter. To me, a low-life non-shavs' build would be unplayable if I was guaranteed to be one-shot even after stacking the stat of 100% chaos resistance (net 40%), and in my opinion, it is not good game design to have entire Passive Keystones and Unique items that hinge entirely on one or two Unique Items (Shav's, Lorica).

The game developers' stated opinion is the same - they hate Set items and said they would never include them, because they become too all-or-nothing. Either everyone runs around with the same set, or no one uses the set, which restricts gear options.

Excessive weakness restricts gear options.

Just a thing to keep in mind when you provide feedback on a subject where you may or may not have precise knowledge.

When i played LL without shavs first thing and most importantly was 75% Chaos res. This was first and foremost. Second thing i did was secure some decent amount of regen. Chaos golem with just a couple % from the tree should cover you fine. even with only 40% Chaos res you still should probably run an Atziri flask or at least amethyst. Corsiscating isnt gonna do you alot of good since you only have 600ish life unreserved.
Ive found coriscating more so helpful on hybrid builds to act as an ES flask rather that using it for the Shavs mod. The shavs mod just protects you when you dump your life to regen ES nice and quickly and this works very well. IDK i just personally found alot more use from the flask on hybrid builds with around 3K+ Life which i could dump in an emergency and it acts like a life flask for my ES.

The only thing i didn't like about anti-shavs LL was the fact i could never take VP which depending on what your running can be bad. With your build however this shouldnt be an issue with LGOH and the massive APS you have so you should be covered there. But id definitely finish topping of my Chaos res because even though your only 35% away that 35% chaos res your short is HUGE.. you wouldnt believe what just being short 10% from cap on any resist makes damage wise and chaos is certainly no different.

To my knowledge there has been no changes to the way they balance around chaos res and most people these days as they always have run around with -60% and if anything they have toned down on some chaos damage at least in lower tier maps. Hell JV boss doesn't even have Chaos damage anymore.. None of the spider bosses do for that matter till you get to T8 that's the first one i noticed that had the extra chaos damage punch.
Of Course its been awhile since i run my Anti-Shavs LL might have to fire it up and see if anything noticable has changed since last i run it i had zero issues i even turned it to be just right for running PA and still having a decent life buffer for chaos.

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Demonoz wrote:

But id definitely finish topping of my Chaos res because even though your only 35% away that 35% chaos res your short is HUGE.. you wouldnt believe what just being short 10% from cap on any resist makes damage wise and chaos is certainly no different.

I'm pretty sure Boem not only believe, he most surely know about res cap importance. But the OP wasn't about res cap at all...

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mark1030 wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

[...]
The only way I would see this work with less than 1000 life :
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Corrupted_Energy

Pretty sure I once read a bug report that said that jewel doesn't work against damage over time. The wording is the same as on shavs so I think it was meant to. Even if it worked, I can't imagine having half of your incoming physical damage bypassing ES would be helpful. Way more monsters hit with physical damage than chaos damage.

Boem, you might have better success if you used Essence of Delirium's chest mod of 50% reduced chaos damage taken over time. I am currently leveling up a hybrid mostly ES build that I was hoping to be able to take to low life after I learned the chaos threats. Sounds like I'm going to have problems. I got the Steppan Eard boots for desecrated ground, but that won't help against those zombies.

I brainfarted yeah, no way to get enough mitigation to make the jewel useful, my mistake.
( It was pretty late for my defense! )

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Boem wrote:

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Before the life values rework, I hade about 900 HP and some situations were pretty dangerous, like I would not be instantly killed, but there could be close calls ( many ennemis that have some chaos damage for example, that on top of a poison cloud ( I'm thinking about beyond monsters ) with 40% chaos res ( amethyst in the pocket just in case, but sometimes you just take the hits and active it the split second after. It's a very weird build so I just could not afford more ).

And even sometimes, under amethyst, I could get pretty low life wise.
Now I have 1500+ unreserved ( about 55% reserved I believe; so that would be 1200+ with a very good low life setup maybe ).

Now, it definitely won't be enough, but it should be easier to get a buffer higher than 1k unreserved, or even 1200.
( It comes down to gearing, and get just the requirement for low life of course, so you can definitely manage imho ).

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silumit wrote:

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Demonoz wrote:

But id definitely finish topping of my Chaos res because even though your only 35% away that 35% chaos res your short is HUGE.. you wouldnt believe what just being short 10% from cap on any resist makes damage wise and chaos is certainly no different.

I'm pretty sure Boem not only believe, he most surely know about res cap importance. But the OP wasn't about res cap at all...

Pretty much.

I know why a -max map roll is considered one of the most dangerous modifiers to roll. And i know the same principle apply's to chaos damage, in that it acts as a more multiplier.

However being 40% positive capped on a secondary resist is already a solid investment. Irrelevant of that, where talking about the degen cloud of a tier 5 white zombie here.

With 40% chaos regen + 200 regen per sec and roughly 200 lgoh per sec. Those are not "low value's" or something to sneeze at.

Honestly i expect to roll chaos degens over with those value's in a tier 5 map. Considering the exponential scaling possible with both higher base tiers AND monster damage modifiers.

I expect to have the difficulty i am experiencing now to happen at max chaos resist value in like tier 13/14 maps. Because the base-line damage output i am experiencing now is out of whack when contemplating it's value's in tier 13+ maps.

Add in a "extra damage" modifier on a rare or blue pack, and perhaps a vulnerability curse and extra damage modifier on the map itself and i can only tremble at the thought of that EVEN WITH max chaos resistance.

And that's very bad, when even the max possible counter-play is rendered useless.

Which ultimately boils down to "get a shavs or go home".

And getting a shavs isn't a counter-play, it's a "dodge the problem entirely" option.

Peace,

-Boem-

You can thank all the people nagging GGG to let them use chaos damage and to add new variations of chaos damage and chaos scaling into the game.

Game is busted right now with how hard Chaos damage hits, essence mobs are plenty proof enough for that. Its completely infeasible right now to get Elemental Weakness capped and chaos capped right now. I wore a Mings Heart and the Chaos damage still ate through those resistances (normally that would be plenty, not talking LL just in general).

One of the worst decisions GGG ever made was listening to the community over chaos skills and damage. They should have stuck to the "we dont want chaos damage to be easily scalable nor have too many sources" as they originally wanted. Now weve got a chaos damage problem on both sides and a fucking retarded ability called "poison" (which was originally only available through a few items and only via attacks).

Low life without Shavs is a death wish. Seriously, unless you have some Korean level flasking skill with the Dragon Flask (it is official now), you're gonna get #Shreked. Otherworldly pack, you being in a wrong place, few hits = DED.

Vulnerability makes you shit bricks, every time you are on a map with anything that drops chaos clouds.

I wouldn't say it is problem with Chaos damage.

^Otherworldly does very little damage with 75% chaos resist.

And my flasking skills are plenty, i reach 320 apm in wc3 tft, so i can manage 1 apm when required :').

But i still agree with you somewhat, the benefits are severely overshadowed by the downsides currently.

It is most definitely a problem with chaos damage though, the scaling is problematic currently. The damage was pretty solidly tuned but i think they fucked it up a lot by increasing damage across the board.

They could solve it by reducing the % on the mobs themselves for example.

I think snakes and vaal constructs are "50% chaos/50% physical", so they could keep the overall damage value's but simply lower the chaos portion to 35% or 25% to be more in line with the previous chaos value's.

Similarly bosses could have a lower % chaos conversion.

This stuff should be dangerous but the counter-play, which is capping the resistance out, should be extremely effective since it's a novelty resistance.

Peace,

-Boem-

So 75% capped chaos resist is needed to try low life without shaves . it is not optional.


140% damage taken vs 25% damage taken is the difference between capped chaos res and the average chaos situation.



if the average build has 5k life to survive the majority of chaos damage

if you get to 0 chaos res then you need i believe only 3500 life

then getting to 75% chaos res would bring that down to around 900.



900 life is actually .. pretty manage able .

That being said going about this way does one thing that you cant escape.. it saddles you to using life flasks.

because no matter what going the chaos res route makes chaos damage treat you like a life build. and that means life flasks.

so if you were planning on getting away with non shavs low life on just regen.. at 75% chaos res you are delusional

at 40% chaos res you are out of your mind ..

NO , not gona happen

People play Low Life without Shav's?
Why would you do that to yourself?