[Feedback] You fucked up chaos damage and low life.

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Fruz wrote:
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Boem wrote:
[...]

Well I have pushed my Sweetbreaker to level 90 ( its in my sign, outdated tho ), and .... 720 really won't be enough, it would not have been enough in 2.0 either.
It's a vaal pact character too.
edit : just did a very quick update on the thread.

"Enemies poison on hit" mod will wreak you pretty hard, any crit with this map mod can become very dangerous, vulnerability map will be awful, some bosses ( arachnid nest indeed ) will be just a no go.

You forgot undying Alchemist too, or some beyond monsters that leave a painful chaos cloud behind them.

And there will be moment where you just notice a tiny bit too late that a very violent chaos cloud has started and the 700 life will basically be gone already,

The only way I would see this work with less than 1000 life :
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Corrupted_Energy
Pretty sure I once read a bug report that said that jewel doesn't work against damage over time. The wording is the same as on shavs so I think it was meant to. Even if it worked, I can't imagine having half of your incoming physical damage bypassing ES would be helpful. Way more monsters hit with physical damage than chaos damage.

Boem, you might have better success if you used Essence of Delirium's chest mod of 50% reduced chaos damage taken over time. I am currently leveling up a hybrid mostly ES build that I was hoping to be able to take to low life after I learned the chaos threats. Sounds like I'm going to have problems. I got the Steppan Eard boots for desecrated ground, but that won't help against those zombies.
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The chaos damage is a bit too high currently. It would be best to be decreased a bit and/or replaced with elemental damaged aligned toward the appearance of the specific mob.
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Fruz wrote:
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Boem wrote:
[...]

Well I have pushed my Sweetbreaker to level 90 ( its in my sign, outdated tho ), and .... 720 really won't be enough, it would not have been enough in 2.0 either.
It's a vaal pact character too.
edit : just did a very quick update on the thread.

"Enemies poison on hit" mod will wreak you pretty hard, any crit with this map mod can become very dangerous, vulnerability map will be awful, some bosses ( arachnid nest indeed ) will be just a no go.

You forgot undying Alchemist too, or some beyond monsters that leave a painful chaos cloud behind them.

And there will be moment where you just notice a tiny bit too late that a very violent chaos cloud has started and the 700 life will basically be gone already,

The only way I would see this work with less than 1000 life :
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Corrupted_Energy


Undying alchemist are not a threat and neither is poison on hit modifiers. Even from heavy rare tanks.

I run around with 7 zombie's, 11 skeletons and 21 spectral wolves so those modifiers don't pose a threat to this build.

I got a feeling they just upped the % damage of mobs which also increased their secondary skills, like the chaos degen cloud.

similarly they probably just increased the arachnids nest boss damage and since the chaos portion is a % scaled from the main hit, it also got substantially increased, neglecting the position chaos damage had in the game before.

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Mark1030 wrote:
Boem, you might have better success if you used Essence of Delirium's chest mod of 50% reduced chaos damage taken over time. I am currently leveling up a hybrid mostly ES build that I was hoping to be able to take to low life after I learned the chaos threats. Sounds like I'm going to have problems. I got the Steppan Eard boots for desecrated ground, but that won't help against those zombies.


Well that's a very specific craft. The chances of rolling that + the other mandatory modifier i would need (500es minimum on chest) would be hard to come by.

It would be glorious, obviously :), but that has very little to do with overall chaos damage balance in the current state of the game compared to previous states.

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Docbp87 wrote:
What does that even mean? Are you saying that I have never played a LL build without Shavs? What does "before this patch" have to do with anything? Even since the current patch, I have not played a LL build without Shavs... Sorry for weighing in on the topic. Just because I haven't played your build before means I cannot understand the mechanics? I know that chaos damage is balanced differently than elemental damage. You act like chaos damage should be balanced around non-shavs/lorica/elixer LL builds, like they are a popular, normal thing to run. Sorry your hipster build is having a hard time.


your comment just illustrates you don't know the previous value's of chaos damage, that's all.

3 game states ago, vaal constructs did 60 damage with 20 chaos resistance, just as a simple example.

While now they do 100 with 40 chaos resistance.

Similarly, jungle valley used to do 480 damage with 40 chaos resist and now hits true 720 hp with the same value.

So yes, i would question your knowledge with the previous game states when it comes to low life non-shavs builds.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : @docbp87, feel free to chip in, but there is absolutely no need to be condescending about it, even more so when don't seem to have the prior knowledge to educate me on the mater or even understand the topic i am raising in this thread.

Spoiler
heu heu hipster build. Apologies for playing a game and not working path of exile instead.
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
Last edited by Boem#2861 on Oct 4, 2016, 2:29:45 PM
Yeah, 2.4 seems to have buffed Chaos Clouds and Strongbox effects; like Explode (it now does more dmg closer you are,) DD behaving differently, Ice Nova and Caustic Cloud dealing more damage, etc.
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Sheriff_K wrote:
Yeah, 2.4 seems to have buffed Chaos Clouds and Strongbox effects; like Explode (it now does more dmg closer you are,) DD behaving differently, Ice Nova and Caustic Cloud dealing more damage, etc.


Not to mention boss changes like Academy where it's 99% chaos damage.

The game has balanced out enemy chaos damage after 2.4. So much so that now I try to at least get enough Chaos resistance on most of my characters to get to 0 in merciless.

The overbearing chaos damage by some mobs is partially the reason why CI is so strong now. Regardless of BV shenanigans, I build CI wherever I can whenever I can no questions asked.

Not having to worry about Chaos damage at all is too good now.
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Prisus wrote:
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Sheriff_K wrote:
Yeah, 2.4 seems to have buffed Chaos Clouds and Strongbox effects; like Explode (it now does more dmg closer you are,) DD behaving differently, Ice Nova and Caustic Cloud dealing more damage, etc.


Not to mention boss changes like Academy where it's 99% chaos damage.

The game has balanced out enemy chaos damage after 2.4. So much so that now I try to at least get enough Chaos resistance on most of my characters to get to 0 in merciless.

The overbearing chaos damage by some mobs is partially the reason why CI is so strong now. Regardless of BV shenanigans, I build CI wherever I can whenever I can no questions asked.

Not having to worry about Chaos damage at all is too good now.


And there presents itself an issue.

If the chaos damage potential is balanced around 0% rather then how it used to be around -60% then the jump from 0% to +75% becomes a whole lot less effective.

Rather i like to think they didn't even go that far and simply went "this mob needs another 25% more damage", irrelevant if it did chaos damage or not.

Totally fucking up the previous game states chaos balance and sub-sequentially low life-non-shavs potential.

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
i have VERY little low life experience:
Spoiler

do not ask, yes it sucks


but about the chaos damage itself

right now im leveling a 'challenge' build - EV melee character, 2h sword. im yet to switch to end-game set so i sit at 4900HP, some damage and.. 0 chaos resist from gear - totalling -60%

and to be frank there was only one situation when i decided it is a good idea to check my chaos resist - when several magic vaal snipers (these triangle dudes) in an Excavation with Vulnerability hit me for like 4800.. in rare (with dmg mods + vuln) Tier 11(?) map.

nothing earlier posed any chaos-vectored threat

maybe it is that most of these are chaos-attacks that i pretty much ignore. i do not know. maligaro in maps is sketchy but i destroy his mines while just dodging his chaos-EK. i believe it could hurt immobile summoner or a character without any avoidance - maybe it could.

but my experience (up to tier 14 right now, all rare/corrupted, several unid) so far tells me that chaos is HIGHLY circumstantial. note: im NOT killing entire screens, in fact my clear speed is terrible.. so it is not 'killed before being a threat' situation
The whole point of chaos dmg is, it pass throught energy shield so of course it will hurt low life builds that doesn't uses Shav.


And of course every build need a weakness. That's where I stand.
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Boem wrote:

And there presents itself an issue.

If the chaos damage potential is balanced around 0% rather then how it used to be around -60% then the jump from 0% to +75% becomes a whole lot less effective.

Rather i like to think they didn't even go that far and simply went "this mob needs another 25% more damage", irrelevant if it did chaos damage or not.

Totally fucking up the previous game states chaos balance and sub-sequentially low life-non-shavs potential.

Peace,

-Boem-


Yeah I have no idea if they balance around 0 or not, but I do feel way more comfortable on life builds when I get closer to that number.

sidtherat had some good points about "chaos damage being circumstantial" but I still think it's a lot stronger than it used to be. Not necessarily the chaos damage itself, but the amount of times I come across it. The Spider boss is in three mid-tier maps. Maligaro in Academy. Not to mention "poison on hit" map mob is rippy as fuck if you don't have much life.

I personally hate playing low-life without shavs. I tried it once...never again as my deaths just ended in me being frustrated. For the most part if you aren't runn tri-curse multi-aura, CI does it better anyway.

The evidence I offer is anecdotal at best, but my life characters with 6k life notice the extra chaos damage that's roaming around.

Essence is especially brutal as many of the essences have chaos AOEs around them and they stick to you like glue on top of that.
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diablofdb wrote:
The whole point of chaos dmg is, it pass throught energy shield so of course it will hurt low life builds that doesn't uses Shav.


And of course every build need a weakness. That's where I stand.


Yes good point, it's not that gearing yourself for a fourth resistance is a weakness when it comes to a builds total potential of affixes/passive tree pathing.

Neither is distributing your recovery mechanics over two different ehp buffers rather then focusing it all one one.

What to say man. Are people daft these days?

@sid, i assume you run with a decent amount of evasion on your characters?

A lot of the games chaos damage threats are partial physical/chaos/projectile based, which makes evasion a very solid mechanic to deal with those.

The other portion is AOE/degen based, which regeneration or recovery mechanics usually take care of.

Hell id go some regen, my passive tree is suited towards it and i only took vaal pact last lvl since i was running a reflect map and for testing purposes. But then i'm fucked on pack size modifiers due to the games mapping system.

But that's all circumstantial and doesn't change the fact chaos damage was poorly scaled in the last
game-state or simply ignored and tossed in the "increase global damage" bin.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : hmm you specifically state evasion melee sid, so yes, that's why you have very little issue with chaos damage, it rarely hurts you since their mostly projectiles.

That shotgun at the tier 11 map was the "unlucky streak" every evasion char eventually runs into.
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
Last edited by Boem#2861 on Oct 4, 2016, 5:31:28 PM

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