0.9.13 (Closed beta) was more balanced, and funnier

I still think the worst thing they did was limit the paths from any starting location to 2. Not on topic I know.. but nobody else seems to miss that. :(
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Happy hunting/fishing
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Qarl wrote:
When we add new content there are always some delays getting the balance right.

I have no doubts we'll get some excellent balance in place by the time we add a new bunch of cool content.
So in other words, you'll get the balance right just in time to mess it up again with a content patch immediately after.
Last edited by Strill#1101 on Feb 19, 2013, 10:13:02 PM
Spoiler
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XDementia wrote:
Disclaimer: This post aims at bringing constructive criticism to the current state of the game balance. If you think this game is flawless and shouldn't be changed a single bit, or if you opened this topic to jump at the reply button and stamp it with a "this is BETA" or "your build sucks", I suggest you simply close the tab as you have nothing to bring to the discussion.

Bit of backstory about myself, in spoiler tags for those who can't bother :

Spoiler
I discovered PoE in May 2012. Game was in its late 0.8 or maybe early 0.9, I can't really remember. I showed videos of this game to my girlfriend and it took us about 20 seconds to decide to buy a couple of beta keys. We played all evening, and the next day we both upgraded to a supporter pack. I picked Silver because that is the most I could afford but I really wanted to support this game.

My main class is a DW melee (sic) Duelist (re-sic), and my girlfriend used to play a summoner Witch (she switched to non summoner Witch in open beta). We have played this game a lot, through thick and thin. Even when desynch was a nightmare (more than now, yes), and the client would crash every couple maps, we'd still play, because we were completely hooked. When 0.9.13qq hit we decided to take a break to enjoy the Open Beta even more. We were both level 70something by then.


Ever since Open Beta launched, and up to a few days ago, my girlfriend and I have played this game whenever we had the chance, and enjoyed every moment of it, until we reached Act 3 Merciless.

I am now level 75, and she is level 72, as she remade her build 3 different times in an attempt to cope with the "nerf sledgehammer" CI, ES, and witches in general have taken in Open Beta.

After Act 3 Merciless, came maps. And after a while we both came to the same conclusion, the game isn't as fun as it used to be.

The balance between difficulty and fun in 0.9.13 was nice. Being a melee was hard, but doable, and rewarding, and eventho some things were still way unbalanced (I'm looking at you, Chaos Inoculation), running maps was fun and the game in general was much less frustrating to play.

Frustration is the word for the two of us right now. The difficulty in Act 3 Merciless, and in maps after that, goes full derp and takes away a lot of the fun out of the equation. I can't wrap my mind around some design choices that were introduced with Open Beta. -60% resists also applying to Chaos? The new CI? The new, higher levels of the mobs making armor nothing more than a joke?

And it doesn't look like we're the only ones with that feeling: the amount of "Melee is not viable", "HP passives are too godly", "builds are even more restricted than before", and similar threads are flourishing.

After a lot of thinking, I am left with a sour taste, and a big doubt. What if the new design choices that came with Open Beta are nothing more than an attempt at artificially lengthening the game, by making progress even slower, and ensuring people with less experience will have to reroll a few times before they find a viable build?

I think some of the design choices have to be seriously reconsidered. The game used to be fun, challenging, and extremely rewarding. Right now it feels slow and frustrating. Still fun of course, but way less than before.

And apparently I'm not the only one thinking that.

TLDR : Close tab, nothing to see here.


totally agree with OP!
But whenever new players or even some older ones say it the hardcore players jump in and bash u.....
“Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.”
― Christopher Hitchens
My QoL List: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3279646
Last edited by Antigegner#0560 on Feb 19, 2013, 10:44:13 PM
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Strill wrote:
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Qarl wrote:
When we add new content there are always some delays getting the balance right.

I have no doubts we'll get some excellent balance in place by the time we add a new bunch of cool content.
So in other words, you'll get the balance right just in time to mess it up again with a content patch immediately after.


Poster for why I hate beta forums right now. Let's all just yell at GGG rather than wait to see what they have in store. Seems to be a better solution.

Would you guys relax with the GGG bashing, it's beta ffs. If you don't enjoy the game now, wait a month or two and come back.
Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th
Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th
Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063
Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856
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Moosifer wrote:
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Strill wrote:
"
Qarl wrote:
When we add new content there are always some delays getting the balance right.

I have no doubts we'll get some excellent balance in place by the time we add a new bunch of cool content.
So in other words, you'll get the balance right just in time to mess it up again with a content patch immediately after.


Poster for why I hate beta forums right now. Let's all just yell at GGG rather than wait to see what they have in store. Seems to be a better solution.

Would you guys relax with the GGG bashing, it's beta ffs. If you don't enjoy the game now, wait a month or two and come back.
I'm just saying the logical conclusion. Qarl said that content messes up balance, and that they're adding content and balance changes in short succession.
Life Moosifer said, just wait it out and see.

Commented earlier about this of a similar vein on EpsiIon's topic, but I agree with everything that the OP mentioned. It was more fun in CB than it was in OB, and there many things that make the game imbalanced, and thus "not fun". Failing defenses, power creep of HP, mana/ES/skill nerfs, imba mobs, increased mob life/damage, etc.

For Ranger build tips, tactics, and critiques, visit this thread:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/69224
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Wittgenstein wrote:
I still think the worst thing they did was limit the paths from any starting location to 2. Not on topic I know.. but nobody else seems to miss that. :(


In this i whole heartedly agree with you. I have always considered it a severely limiting decision made in favor if streamlining a free form system for the benefit of those who are too lazy to learn to navigate the skill tree for themselves.

It never helped the Ranger build for HC, as the readily accessible early damage and attack speed nodes are a noob trap for a glass cannon build.

i liked the illusion( at least it gave that) of an immediate multiplication of build diversity with the extra path from the starting node.
When all your fears combined, the manifest was refined.
I know you really tried to understand. This is a new way!
- Pendulum.
Last edited by Knight_of_the_Revelation#6138 on Feb 20, 2013, 2:39:53 AM
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Strill wrote:
I'm just saying the logical conclusion. Qarl said that content messes up balance, and that they're adding content and balance changes in short succession.


0.10.0 introduced a MASSIVE amount of content, all of which had never before been accessed by the beta community, which give the predominant amount of feedback with regards to this game. Should it therefore be any surprise that massive amount of new content = more time being spent to balance the game?

Patches from now on will likely not contain as much of an influx of new content as 0.10.0 did and will probably follow the closed beta pattern, that is bit-by-bit injection of new content so as to not upset the balance too much and to make it easier to fine tune the balance of new content as we go along.

I for one can't believe that you're actually implying that adding content is bad. Sure, adding new content will always upset balance because all new content is new and hence untested by the beta community, but adding new content is always fun and makes the game more interesting. Either way, since they'll most likely follow the closed beta pattern of adding new content though, there shouldn't be any major balance issues.
Build of the Week 14
The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC
Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader
If even Moosifer and Invalesco both agree with the OP then we are truly doomed :'(

TBH I regret the loss of builds viability and diversity introduced lately, especially in the spell casters domain. Imho since my inscription in the CB back in December 2011 the spell casters have taken too many consecutive nerfs (such as increased skill base mana cost, clarity nerf, es nerf, power charge gain nerf etc).

I don't loose faith in GGG however, I trust them to balance everything in time :) it just that *it's* time now ;)
The thing ive noticed most is that every (and I do mean every) build that was effective (for me) before OB became significantly harder.

Like others have noted, now builds end up being defence heavy and it seems the moment I grab a couple of offence nodes (and lets face it, offence is the key difference in builds) the defence falls behind the damage curve.

I have 3 maurauder builds 1H/Shield, 2H and Bow. Their first 13 nodes are identical, it would be 16 but the bow didnt go to RT.

For the GGG statistics I would be very interested to see how many maurauder builds do not start with the HP nodes and exit at Diamond Skin, before going to RT? Im kind of curious to see the % or average number of life nodes taken overall.

I dont think that all defence, with a handful of nodes that define a "build" is working well. Is it reasonable to have a character take 29 nodes, none of them offensive? Is it reasonable to go on to say that there are 5 offensive nodes planned for the first 65 or so?

To illustrate further, and agree with the OP:
CB I had a templar summoner that took no HP nodes and about 5 ES nodes. No CI. No offensive Spells, Skeles on Totem, 4 Auras. Facerolled everything. It was fun. Now minions are a lot more work and a lot less fun.

B. (trying not to sound whiny)
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