0.9.13 (Closed beta) was more balanced, and funnier

My issue with clinging to any one patch-era is that each one had something I'd change.

And each one probably had something someone else would change too.

I know, it's trite of me and I know you'll forgive me, but 'take the bad with the good' comes to mind.

Admittedly, if you feel more bad than good has resulted, then I am all for a reversion to what worked in a former patch provided we still address what didn't.

Unfortunately I think most of us know that while it's easy to yearn for the past, it's not easy to glean from it what we liked without dragging forward what we didn't. The fact that there were things we disliked (or needed to be changed -- fuck off, Diamond Flasks. Seriously!) led to the divergence in the path, the choices made.

So what I'd take from this thread is -- figure out what worked in a former patch, what didn't, suggest fixes for what didn't that haven't already been implemented, and thus present a feasible 'next step' for the devs as feedback.

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agbudar wrote:

default league should be more of a introduction/fun/ casual gaming zone but with a good difficulty curve

And it is.

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agbudar wrote:

everything from there can be more difficult near impossible for all i care
but NO MATTER what built you follow one should be able to finish a game that being said that is sure a hard part to acomplish but one thing that should be the deciding factor of this is the player's skill at playing not his skill at building

This is IMPOSSIBLE. You feel that ANY build should be able to finish the game. If you can finish the game with the WORST possible build, how are you going to make it even remotely challenging for a decent build (hint: its not possible). Currently it is possible to finish the game with anything resembling a decent build, some builds do take a lot more skill and careful playing because they are far from optimal.

0.9.13 had a lot of chance to change the balance without adding much new content.

Most of the new content was being prepared for 0.10.0

When we add new content there are always some delays getting the balance right, and 0.10.0 added a lot of content.

There will be various changes being made in upcoming patches to address various balance issues.

We do keep a close eye on feedback (and there is oh so much of it now), and what actually happens in game (we have some good tools for checking this now). I have no doubts we'll get some excellent balance in place by the time we add a new bunch of cool content.

i think the biggest problem is Ele Damage on Weapons at the moment, and the main reason for this is the Weapon Elemental Support Gem... This one Gem just gives over 80% MORE Damage. There is no other gem that is such strong. Nerf this support gem would make Ele Damage less OP.

And Lightning Arrow is a other Problem, explode on every hit is just Crazy. My Fireball can´t do that, and has a way smaller Area on explode, why can LA do that? So LA is double OP because of Ele Damage and because of LA mechanic xD

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Moosifer wrote:

+1

Been screaming about it for a while but feel ignored or part of the minority. Glad everyone is catching up.

Well you got me on that.
The main problem defence,and health works suplumentary with gear. And there is no gems like you take x less damage from y damage source passive gems, neither increased health% gems.

Damage is contradictory for the most part because you can get it either from your tree or from skills guess what wins.It is contradictory because let's say my burning arrow has 50% increased damage. I can get either hatred on it and get 24% extra damage from physical or 11% physical damage per node at best. The only exclusion is elementaldamage because it is suplumentary with all elemental damage supports and auras.

Infact I kinda don't understand how Evasion concept fits the game when it sorta should help with strong hits but you end up kinda dead, with those amount and strength of health passives.

Even in OB I kinda noticed thathealth was kinda low.

The only way to make those uderused passives kinda viable pick is either change them to give something that supports can't (or can serve as addition). Or making them multiplicative with skillgems while reducing general damage effectiveness of skills. And reducing damages to managable level to survive at least 1 hit with 100% passives with average gear.

You can balance against hp some take, but they would stack it anyway. Just wanders what would happen when there wouldbe not enough points for life passives and life on gear to survive a hit. The way to combat hp stacking is by introducing hp/ES terminators. Low quantity monsters that deal damage based on curent HPwith skills is one example. Making mind lesshp stacking kinda useless.(It is always possible tomake workaroundsforhigh hp builds which are actually use their hp forsomething usefull other then survive longer. Also it is automatic blood magic nerf because it would actually resource)

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CarebearKiller wrote:

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agbudar wrote:

everything from there can be more difficult near impossible for all i care
but NO MATTER what built you follow one should be able to finish a game that being said that is sure a hard part to acomplish but one thing that should be the deciding factor of this is the player's skill at playing not his skill at building

This is IMPOSSIBLE. You feel that ANY build should be able to finish the game. If you can finish the game with the WORST possible build, how are you going to make it even remotely challenging for a decent build (hint: its not possible). Currently it is possible to finish the game with anything resembling a decent build, some builds do take a lot more skill and careful playing because they are far from optimal.

ye well the QQ on this thread is a result that anything near decent needs a massive amount of health stacking right?

i believe i should clarify
what i meant to say was whether a person goes armor, evasion, energy shield, hp or a mixture of these it should be made possible for endgame

the only failure build in my opinion would be taking Chaos inoculation combined with acrobatics and a massive amount of hp stacking. maybe some measures should be taken against this... yknow someone might accidentally click on a keystone or 2 .... didn't happen to me ...honest...

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Qarl wrote:

0.9.13 had a lot of chance to change the balance without adding much new content.

Most of the new content was being prepared for 0.10.0

When we add new content there are always some delays getting the balance right, and 0.10.0 added a lot of content.

There will be various changes being made in upcoming patches to address various balance issues.

We do keep a close eye on feedback (and there is oh so much of it now), and what actually happens in game (we have some good tools for checking this now). I have no doubts we'll get some excellent balance in place by the time we add a new bunch of cool content.

sounds great can't wait

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agbudar wrote:

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CarebearKiller wrote:

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agbudar wrote:

everything from there can be more difficult near impossible for all i care
but NO MATTER what built you follow one should be able to finish a game that being said that is sure a hard part to acomplish but one thing that should be the deciding factor of this is the player's skill at playing not his skill at building

This is IMPOSSIBLE. You feel that ANY build should be able to finish the game. If you can finish the game with the WORST possible build, how are you going to make it even remotely challenging for a decent build (hint: its not possible). Currently it is possible to finish the game with anything resembling a decent build, some builds do take a lot more skill and careful playing because they are far from optimal.

ye well the QQ on this thread is a result that anything near decent needs a massive amount of health stacking right?

I had taken 6 total HP nodes on my Ranger by level 69. Still VERY decent character, just have to pay a lot more attention than with a 4-5k hp guy, but I hit like a truck. To balance this out I use various utility skills to try to prevent getting hit, it still happens, but when it does I run like a little girl.

However, if I did not take any HP nodes and decided to get Blood Magic I should probably get my face smashed in by monsters at higher levels. How about if I got Eldritch Battery and Chaos Innoculation? Should that build be able to complete the game? What if I specialized into 1 handed and 2 handed physical damage with no regard for life/eva/armor/resists. Should I really be able to succeed? No.

In general there is a bit too much emphasis on HP nodes currently, but it is not to the extreme that people claim. Granted, my last 3 levels and the next 10 or so will all be HP nodes on the ranger, but I did not need them to complete the game (although Chaos Damage was a kick in the nuts). Personally I like that defensive options are attractive. DPS boosting passives are attractive by their nature, they make you kill things faster. The game needs to be hard and punishing (see XP penalty) to create a need for the defensive options. This may not be in perfect balance currently, but it is not incredibly far off.

I didn't think my quick little reply would be quoted so much. Let me be clear, since the introduction of chain/fork, pen gems, and new res curses it's been pretty much nerf everything. The problem with nerfing everything is it leaves a few things viable and shows how weak other things are. If in the next few patches those weak points get fixed, I'll be totally happy with how the game is progressing. I'm just annoyed at this time because I figured nerfs would come with buffs to keep things relatively balanced but it seems they nerf, nerf, nerf then buff, buff, buff.

I fully expect things to get better in the future, I just felt they could have done more to make things less frustrating now and they put it off until later.

I love this game, longest I've committed to any game, including longer than D2 and think it's a matter of time before I really fall in love with some of these patches. Until then, I'm just gonna avoid the end game to avoid the frustration of all my builds being pretty much the same or getting crushed.

Yeah I have to say act 3 is waay harder then act 2 on the same difficulty and act 1 on the following difficulty. 'd rather rush through act 3 and farm twilight strand then spend time in act 3. It's that act to pass through asap.. And end game? forget it...