The Ascendency Labyrinth - My Conclusions so far and how to solve the Problem!

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mark1030 wrote:

I hate when people define what a game is supposed to be. Can't have traps in an arpg. Why not? If you watch a Drama movie, is it not allowed to have any funny lines? Should bits of comedy not be allowed in it? Is an action movie not allowed to have bits of other genres? PoE is a game. It's not defined by you or wiki or anybody else. It's defined by the makers. So telling them what belongs in their game is arrogant and presumptuous. Not directed at anyone in particular. I just keep seeing this "this game is arpg and so must be exactly like arpg supposed to be" argument coming up in every thread questioning ggg design decisions.

They can make what ever the fuck they want, they can put racing games or card games in this. But the moment that content is not optional and I need to play that bullshit in a arpg game in diablo style that they them selves marked it as, be sure people like me and other will be pissed and will give feedback about it.

People still complaining about labyrinth? :\

I am sorry but if you can't stand to play like an hour (two tops) in it to grab the ascendancy points per character which you will probably then proceed to play for 20+ hours I do not know what to say.

As for the whole thing about what Chris mentioned, I do not see how people fail to see his point:

Imagine if 100.000 players play the game, if 2000 players do not like the labyrinth, they are the minority.
However it is still 2000 people, therefore it is still categorized as many because it represent a large number compared to a single person.

Labyrinth is a great piece of game content that promotes thinking and strategic playstyle, I do not understand why people do not like it.
If i want to play a mindless game I do not play PoE, maybe this is the problem we face tho?
People expecting PoE to be a mindless grind game rather one in where you need to pay attention and where your actions have consequences on your character.

They put hardcore mode in softcore, this is why it gets all the hate.
I dislike labirinth becuase I can't try anymore diffrent builds to progress furthure in, when i reach last izaro some builds will get rekt in seconds and some wont make it on second trial.

Because of labirinth i stoped playing standard and in each new league i wont make more than one character and it must be one build that makes it trough labirinth at least once, if it fails i stop playing that league and will not reroll another build. In prophecy i decided to make a tanky build (2H cycloner with 6k+health and 7 endurance with immortal call) to beat merciless izaro with no problems and maybe try to farm enchants for the build since my last league build couldn't. With this build i didn't had problems doing merciless izaro, problem is they add new uber lab and this build can't kill uber izaro in second trial aspirant due to lack of damage. Probably gonna quit this league.

@OP: I'm fine with your proposed changes so long as it doesn't remove the ascendancy points from the laby. As an admitted laby lover, I'm not running it just to run it nor am I running it for enchants. Should the points be moved out of it, I'll no longer have a reason to enjoy this content anymore since most of the builds I play don't benefit from a majority of the enchants. And attempting to farm helm enchants isn't worth the effort for someone who doesn't run a shop.

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Darkkrows wrote:

my problem with traps is they punish tanky build more than glass cannon.

How do you figure that? By my experience the opposite is true. The only truly tanky build I've played can go through the laby like nothing bothers him (no move skill/slow move speed and walks thru traps like it's a swarm of gnats) yet the glass cannon builds I've played have to be super careful around traps.

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Mannoth wrote:

Labyrinth is a great piece of game content that promotes thinking and strategic playstyle, I do not understand why people do not like it.
If i want to play a mindless game I do not play PoE, maybe this is the problem we face tho?
People expecting PoE to be a mindless grind game rather one in where you need to pay attention and where your actions have consequences on your character.

Well said Mannoth, very much echoing the feelings I've had since the beginning of this whole laby hate movement.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Mannoth wrote:

Labyrinth is a great piece of game content that promotes thinking and strategic playstyle, I do not understand why people do not like it.
If i want to play a mindless game I do not play PoE, maybe this is the problem we face tho?
People expecting PoE to be a mindless grind game rather one in where you need to pay attention and where your actions have consequences on your character.

Well said Mannoth, very much echoing the feelings I've had since the beginning of this whole laby hate movement.

I have 200ms minimum ping. Case closed. Traps are crap because they require careful positioning. The only other part of the game that requires careful positioning are the one shot attacks from high tier map bosses. I've been playing for 3 years just fine with 200ms ping too and the game is perfect apart for traps.

While I sympathize with your problems, it's hardly a reason for the traps or the laby to be removed. Perhaps if the suggestion in the OP were to be implemented you wouldn't have such an issue.

im sorry to hear about your situation but i have to say it: its 2016 and games are designed around people having pings lower than 200ms..

if anything expect more 'game providers' to ignore people with unusual pings. if they have to choose between satisfying corner-case users or providing better service for the majority.. you i hope understand the choice

btw can you force lockstep? because if you can traps should be possible to do. if anything it is Izaro that will kill you with this ping because that fight is very hectic (ive just done it at 57 - cruel - as a srs necro. because srs no longer target nearest target it.. was hectic and i surely would have died with 200ms ping)

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mark1030 wrote:

I hate when people define what a game is supposed to be. Can't have traps in an arpg. Why not? If you watch a Drama movie, is it not allowed to have any funny lines? Should bits of comedy not be allowed in it? Is an action movie not allowed to have bits of other genres? PoE is a game. It's not defined by you or wiki or anybody else. It's defined by the makers. So telling them what belongs in their game is arrogant and presumptuous. Not directed at anyone in particular. I just keep seeing this "this game is arpg and so must be exactly like arpg supposed to be" argument coming up in every thread questioning ggg design decisions.

This is not exactly right. I clearly said that the ways the traps are deployed are an issue for most people and not that there are traps to begin with. Traps are part of aRPGs. Also, the problem isn't that the labyrinth exists, the problem is that the very important AC points are behind this labyrinth, which offers a completely new gameplay which is not liked by everyone. No one wants to remove the labyinth, people just want to get their AC points in a way that goes in line with the classic poe gameplay.

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Mannoth wrote:

Labyrinth is a great piece of game content that promotes thinking and strategic playstyle, I do not understand why people do not like it.

It's just not my playstyle and I didn't start PoE to play arcade. If the lab wouldnÄt have the AC points behind it, I wouldn't even care at all about the lab and I think 99% of those who complain about it wouldn't care either.

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Mannoth wrote:

If i want to play a mindless game I do not play PoE, maybe this is the problem we face tho?
People expecting PoE to be a mindless grind game rather one in where you need to pay attention and where your actions have consequences on your character.

Do you know the name of the developer? Grinding Gear Games. The name TELLS you what PoE is (or was) all about. PoE started as a pure classic aRPG with lots of grinding. This is what people wanted and what they got. Many play this game for years now. The RNG based loot and the rareness of some items indiciate, that this game is supposed to be a grinder.

And btw.: When you do endgame maps, you have to pay attation. If you don't, you WILL have to live with the consequences. That's why I'm only playing Hardcore in the first place, because I don't like playing glass cannons which do not have to pay any attention to their surroundings at all.

@OP: great post, I fully agree with your suggestion.

The classic mode sounds like good fun and honestly how I expected the Labyrinth to look when it was launched. I was expecting some way to get around traps without actively engaging them, albeit less efficiently. Sounds like a classic design to me: here's a nasty obstacle! Either you show some skill (& a good internet connection) and engage it, or you can work around it as a wuss and suffer the time penalty.

Labyrinth is probably one of the best content updates in PoE. Much needed change to the mindless hold-m2-grinding. Only problem is performance, lag spikes can be fatal. So far I have survived nevertheless (hc)

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Ruefl2x wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

I hate when people define what a game is supposed to be. Can't have traps in an arpg. Why not? If you watch a Drama movie, is it not allowed to have any funny lines? Should bits of comedy not be allowed in it? Is an action movie not allowed to have bits of other genres? PoE is a game. It's not defined by you or wiki or anybody else. It's defined by the makers. So telling them what belongs in their game is arrogant and presumptuous. Not directed at anyone in particular. I just keep seeing this "this game is arpg and so must be exactly like arpg supposed to be" argument coming up in every thread questioning ggg design decisions.

and there is the next troll ...

did you read OP? he said he didn't want traps to be removed!

Yes, I did read it. But you didn't read my thread before calling me a troll. I bolded that part you ignored. I was speaking in general. OP referenced 2 other threads. And many responses in many threads all say similar things. Not "we don't like" as you seem to think they all say. But "don't belong in this genre". It is those people who I was addressing. So stop calling me a troll and pretending I said a bunch of stuff I didn't say.

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also:
can we not tell the makers (GGG) that we don't like a certain aspect of their game?

Where did I say this?

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well ok ... then there is no need for forums and discussion.
people will just leave the game without the devs ever knowing what is the problem.

Where did I say this?

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why do you think subscription based games ask you why you are not supporting the game anymore!
this is not possible here as the game is free.

Why are you asking this? Where did I say nobody could give feedback? I just said feedback shouldn't be telling the devs what "belongs" in their game based on some non existent standards on what a game has to have and what a game cannot have.