Mechanical Questions Thread

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Freeeeez wrote:
DBawss, you are wrong. Read the wiki page you liked once again.


I will double check it once I'm back home, but I remember reading it yesterday before posting... I might have skipped something since it was past midnight... Anyways Ill update this once I do.

[Update]
You are right. I did misread this line:
"Most of the time source of reflected damage is the same as source of damage dealt to a target".

Which means you are not the source of the damage.

I'll adjust my original post accordingly...
Last edited by DBawss on Jul 16, 2016, 7:09:23 PM
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ChristinaAnn wrote:
I was testing out mechanics when having a maximum of zero power/frenzy/endurance charges with corrupted jewels.

I noticed that equipments that grant buffs based on being at maximum charges of a specific type do not trigger if your maximum charges your character can have are zero (which could be interpreted as being at a max charges).

Considering that 3 jewel sockets on a passive tree + 3 corrupted jewels need to be utilized to create this scenario, I find it extremely disappointing that 'Gain Rampage while at Maximum Endurance Charges' criteria on wyrmsign gauntlets, or other items with similar triggered buffs or effects 'at max charges' don't work.

Is this a bug or something the devs could consider making work to create some more interesting builds?


According to the wiki, it should work and is the main reason for the existence behind these jewels:

"Most notably, using three of the Pacifism unique jewel with no other additional charges available will reduce the maximum number of frenzy charges to zero, leading to the poison debuff being applied every attack."
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Snakebite

So this should be a bug. Please repost this at:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-forum/bug-reports

I hope I have helped.
Last edited by DBawss on Jul 16, 2016, 8:27:26 PM
Do multiple copies of the same treshold jewel stack?
I'm interested in particular in "Growing Agony".
If I slot 2 of them, do I get 4% increased attack damage for each poison? Or only two?
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Ayraclus wrote:
Do multiple copies of the same treshold jewel stack?
I'm interested in particular in "Growing Agony".
If I slot 2 of them, do I get 4% increased attack damage for each poison? Or only two?


They stack, unless there's a limited use showing on this list.

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/List_of_unique_jewels

I hope I have helped.
How does "melee critical strike" chance/multi work with lightning strike projectiles?

The attack itself is melee, but the projectiles aren't, right? So can the initial hit crit and the projectiles not crit in the same attack? Or does the whole attack have one crit chance since the attack itself is melee? What about melee crit multi?
Hey Mark,
A friend and I were discussing a potential build idea, that used some quite unique applications of various uniques, and I was wondering if you could shed some insight onto how the various functions would interact.

The basic premise of the build was to use a winterheart to sustain the regen for righteous fire, since the character would already be frozen, a berek's pass would be used for 5k flat armour. Now this is the part that I wasnt sure on, but to maintain a permanent freeze, it was proposed to use a CWDT setup to proc a perpetual heatbound loop, and using the physical damage from that in conjuntion with a lightning coil and a three dragons helm to deal cold damage to myself, and then using an auxium to make that smidge of cold damage be enough to freeze (with assistance from fragile bloom if need be)

tl:dr, can you use a lightning coil + three dragons to make the physical player damage from heartbound loop deal cold damage to the player?
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tl:dr, can you use a lightning coil + three dragons to make the physical player damage from heartbound loop deal cold damage to the player?


Just a minor clarification: The Three Dragons does not convert damage, it allows your lightning damage to freeze, which is different. Also, even with three dragons lightning damage does not freeze simply if it passes a certain threshold, it needs to either crit or have a "chance to freeze" as far as I know. But if that hurdle can be overcome, the build might work. I'm not sure if self-dealt damage can apply elemental status ailments or not. I hope this helped!
Last edited by Valiren on Jul 17, 2016, 11:28:48 AM
So ive been playing for a few years now and in the past when socketing and fusing it has always stoped at max. ive noticed recently that when socketing it still stops at 4 or 6. but now when fusing it rolls past the max; atleast with 4. Is this some kind of new rolling thing or what cuz i wasted alot of fusings due to this. Ive never had this issue just only recently in the past 2 weeks or so. any ideas would be awesome.

LostXray
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LostXray wrote:
So ive been playing for a few years now and in the past when socketing and fusing it has always stoped at max. ive noticed recently that when socketing it still stops at 4 or 6. but now when fusing it rolls past the max; atleast with 4. Is this some kind of new rolling thing or what cuz i wasted alot of fusings due to this. Ive never had this issue just only recently in the past 2 weeks or so.


This (able to unlink 4L) has been the behavior almost since the auto stop (unable to unlink 6L; unable to desocket 6S or 4S) was put into place. It is inconsistent because 6L is so rare that it is almost never a good idea to unlink it, while 4L is relatively common and there are good reasons to not want 4L (suppose one wants a Golem on Faster Casting and a Cast when Stunned Frost Wall in the same item because there are no sockets left elsewhere. If it were 4L, you couldn't self-cast the Golem!) so many people complained and the 4L exception wad put into place.

That was before Vorici though. Now that we have a linking method that doesn't rely on directly using orbs, it might be time to put a 4L auto stop in place again. Make a thread in Feedback and Suggestions and see if there are a lot of other people having similar issues!

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Valiren wrote:
How does "melee critical strike" chance/multi work with lightning strike projectiles?


By chance I've already answered a very similar question! I'm going to include the quote of that inside a spoiler at the end of this post (hopefully that doesn't muck up the formatting)!

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Valiren wrote:
The attack itself is melee, but the projectiles aren't, right?

Right
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Valiren wrote:
So can the initial hit crit and the projectiles not crit in the same attack?

Right
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Valiren wrote:
What about melee crit multi?

As you'd expect (the Melee hit gets the multi but the Projectiles do not)

Note that your tooltip only accounts for the Melee Hit. So don't trust it!
Looooong post explaining exactly how conditional crit works

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adghar wrote:
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frenzul wrote:

Using projectile skills as an example... does each cast have a chance to crit or each projectile? More specifically, what about for something with multiple stages like frost blades? If the initial hit doesn't crit, could the projectiles that follow still crit?


I don't think Mark will answer this because he is a bit of a rules lawyer and so has kind of already answered:

quotation from the Book of Mark_GGG

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Khornaar wrote:
wrote:
I have a question about Abyssal Cry and its interaction with critical strikes.
When does critical strike check occurs? in a moment of initial cast or in a moment of monster exploding?

Checking whether a hit is a critical strike or not is always done when that specific hit is calculated, and cannot be done at any other time, because your critical strike chance can be different for different hits.
The critical strike roll is only made once, when the skill is cast, just like most skills. All hits from the same action have the same roll, but are potentially checking against different chances to crit, so may or may not crit on different enemies.


However I love talking about crit so I am going to elaborate, in my own words.

Crit is rolled once per skill use. This means that in most cases, when you Press Button Once, either everything that happens as a result of that button press will crit, or none of the results will crit. I.e. in most cases, if the Melee Hit doesn't crit, then neither will the Projectiles, from Frost Blade.

Note that I said "in most cases." The other cases I'm talking about are conditional crits, that is, when critical strike chance depends on one factor or anothwr. The classical example is Assassin's Mark, which adds flat crit chance. Different enemies will have different critical strike chances. How is this resolved?

If you want to understand crit in this game you have to recognize that your Critical Strike Chance stat is not a Chance in the traditional sense. What that stat does in reality is set a threshold which must be passed in order to crit. Your actual random number roll is the same no matter what your Critical Strike Chance stat is.

Here's the math behind it. When you Use a Skill, which usually means one button press, you make a roll between 0 and 99.9. Then, when you Hit an enemy, you compare your roll with your Critical Strike Chance against that target. If your number is less than your Chance stat, you pass the Chance test.

Let's bring this back to the Frost Blades example. You use a Vagan's Rusted Sword with no other gear or passives. Whenever your Melee Hits crit, all your Projectile hits crit as well.

Now suppose you add jewels that make it so your Melee Critical Strike Chance 10% but your Projectile stats are unaffected, leaving ProjectIle Critical Strike Chance at 5%. This means that if you observe a melee crit, there is a 50% chance that your Projectiles crit as well. Why is this?

If your melee hit crit, you know you must have rolled between 0 and 9.9, because those are the only values that are lower than 10.0, your Melee Critical Strike Chance. But in order to get a value below 5.0, your Projectile Critical Strike Chance, you must have rolled 0 to 4.9.

Notice the beauty inherent in this system. Assuming all Hits, your projectiles are still 5%, and your melee is 10%, but you still get clustered crits, i.e. when you crit, it slams into a whole bunch of enemies at once, just like the game developers intended.

Note I had to stipulate Vagan's because Chance to Hit screws it all up a bit. In order for an Attack to crit, it must pass two Chance to Hit checks in total, one entropy based and one fully pseudorandom. The entropy based one is the actual Hit check, while the fully pseudo random one is a "crit confirm," i.e. it is a second roll that must pass in order for a crit to be allowed. This means Evasion is doubly defensive against Critical Strikes.
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Last edited by adghar on Jul 17, 2016, 1:49:44 PM
I would like to understand how the Bubbling prefix on flasks works.

My pathfinder uses the following tree:
Spoiler
https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAIDAQBeAO4D7gQHBLMFQgguCPQOXA-rES0VIBa_F5YYPBhWGY4c3B2-IuIkiySdJpUo-io4Kk0snCzpMtEzhzWSN0w6WDrhPAU9Xz8nQYdBlkQNRUdFfkfiSshMs03jUUxSU1VLVcZZbV-YX7Bh4mJaakNq-m0ZbqpwUnX9fIN9W311f5aCx4PbhG-ExYUyhrOJ04w2jZKPGpeVl_SbjZu1n22f36IApDmmV6xHrrO1SLXytz64k7zqvSfAVMBmwzrHncjwykrPMtAf0PXTftRC2L3pmOvu7YPveu987-vwH_JF9qP3Pfno_gr-j_66

(summary: 50% increased effect of flasks, 28% flask effect duration, 30% increased life recovery from flasks)

On this character, Bubbling is an instant heal (or the duration is a frame or less and hence undetectable for me).

Also, it appears that neither flask life recovery rate nor flask effect duration modifiers modify it, as observed by toggling


In both cases, I recover 3888 hp (tested with vaal pact). I am confused two-fold here:

1) Why didn't the belt increase my recovery? I expected the game to first calculate the amount of heal-per-second and total duration, and then apply the instant/non-instant split. Or well, let me rephrase: I wish it was this way, so that my Belt would be useful! :)

2) Why would the Bubbling Flask be (near) instant?

Additionally I would appreciate a derivation of the exact recovery amount.

Edit: Forgot to link the flask in question:
Last edited by effort on Jul 17, 2016, 6:09:10 PM

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