Mechanical Questions Thread

"
DBawss wrote:

I hope I have helped.


Its very pity. I just want to find out, will poison support gem give more profit if i have this 6link setup:

1. SRS 21
2. Spell Echo
3. Minion damage
4. Empower 4lvl
5. Melee physical damage
6. Poison or added fire?

Linked in +2 fire gems and +1 gems (+3) staff.
Sorry for my bad English. Crit bow Ranger 97 lvl.
"
LazerDeath wrote:
Its very pity. I just want to find out, will poison support gem give more profit if i have this 6link setup:

1. SRS 21
2. Spell Echo
3. Minion damage
4. Empower 4lvl
5. Melee physical damage
6. Poison or added fire?

Linked in +2 fire gems and +1 gems (+3) staff.


This (as much as other ingame mechanics) is very hard to determine since you would have to run a series of formulas to actually find out what deals more damage, but I'll try to help you the best I can.

First things first. Act Bosses and many other unique bosses have Elemental Resistances up to 45% and Chaos Resistance equal to half that value (22%). So as a rule of thumb I never focus on elemental damage unless I can either Penetrate or Reduce those resistances, since it's a flat 50% Less Damage (roughly).

In oder words, gems like Added Fire Damage will have it's potential halved without a Fire Penetration gem or a properly adjusted Curse based build. So Added Chaos Damage would be 1 quarter Less Effective. With that in mind, you can usually find way better gems for DPS purpouses, but the DPS value on your skill tooltip will deceive you, since it can't factor your enemies resistances.

I know it looks pretty lame to look at your 6L DPS setup, then swap Added Fire for Fire Penetration and notice it's way lower or worse than that, completly remove your Fire Penetration and have the same value with or without it. But must look at the actual DPS.

I'll try to simplify as much as I can, so I won't factor Physical Reduction from Bosses. Follow me:

lvl20 Added Fire Damage: 44% More Physical to Fire vs Bosses = roughly 25%
lvl20 Poison Damage: 20% More Physical to Poison/2s vs Bosses = roughly 15%/2s
Poison Damage also has an inate 48% Increased Damage which I won't factore here due to it's scalings with other Gems/Passives, just keep in mind the damage is higher than this.

As you can see, Poison Gem is not that bad since you can reach over 201% Increased Duration with passives and gears (and I'm not even factoring Temporal Chains).

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Duration

Assuming you had all of that (still no TempChains) you would deal 45%/6s and remember that Poison Damage stacks.

I could spend hours here to demonstrate what would be better, but simply put:
Without Resistances bypass and with Increased Duration stuff (which you should have for SRS), the Poison Support will outplay Added Fire.

In some builds, Added Fire could still be a better choice if the damage was high enough to Ignite, but it's not your case, so it's a 1 time hit vs a Degen effect.

I hope I have helped again.
Last edited by DBawss on Jul 15, 2016, 3:32:10 PM
"
DBawss wrote:

Poison Damage also has an inate 48% Increased Damage which I won't factore here due to it's scalings with other Gems/Passives, just keep in mind the damage is higher than this.


ty

Will my poison damage inherit scalings from minion damage support gem, tree and gear?

I also use totem with lightning and Elemental Equilibrium to debuff bosses - so they have -50% to cold and fire.

The best way to find out i think is Uber Atziri. But im not prepared :)


Other little question. How does Multistrike support gem works?
Will it have more profit then Added fire gem since i have the Hatred+Generosity aura, which does not add damage from fire?

It seems like it should do more damage, but when i test it on mobs - fire looks like better.
Sorry for my bad English. Crit bow Ranger 97 lvl.
Last edited by LazerDeath on Jul 15, 2016, 4:21:21 PM
What can increase the damage dealt from the leo mod "deals x-y physical damage to attackers on block" and other similar mods?

Does Singularity increase it?
Does Vulnerability increase it?
Does the mod "increased damage by x%" (often seen on jewels) increase it?

Also what was the reason behind the decision to make this so difficult to scale up as opposed to all the more multiplers everything is getting. This already cannot be linked to any gems, so I can't figure out why it'd be unaffected by most things.
Crit Shockwave Totem 650k +: #1657327 / Crit VMS (1 mil DPS): #1511368 / Crit self-cast spark: #1565708
1.3 crit firestorm: #1280086 / 1.3 crit Ice Nova: #1219809 / Flame Nova (sire of shards incinerate): #1359847
"
LazerDeath wrote:
Will my poison damage inherit scalings from minion damage support gem, tree and gear?


Sure. Increases/Reductions stack additively, while More/Less stack multiplicatively so damage scaling usually looks like this:
SkillBaseDamage*(IncDamageA+...+IncDamageZ)*MoreDamageA*...*MoreDamageZ

When you throw Conversions it gets a little bit uglier, but you can read about it here (at the end):
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Damage_conversion


"
LazerDeath wrote:
I also use totem with lightning and Elemental Equilibrium to debuff bosses - so they have -50% to cold and fire.


Then Added Fire is slightly better than Poison Support, since 45-50=-5% your enemies will take 5% More Fire Damage. But do notice that Poison Support increases the damage from Beacon of Corruption (in case you have it), which is a nice synergy.


"
LazerDeath wrote:
Other little question. How does Multistrike support gem works?
Will it have more profit then Added fire gem since i have the Hatred+Generosity aura, which does not add damage from fire?


Anger+Generosity > Haste+Generosity
You should use Anger instead of Hatred, it won't scrow your EEquilibrium since you won't get the buff and therefore your totem won't deal fire damage.

I've ran some tests with Multistrike on my Animate Guardian build and you can see that value is actually bigger, but less than 10%. If the hits were high enough to Shock, Freeze or Ignite Bosses, I wouldn't use Multistrike (and neither Elemental Focus xD). But it really depends on your setup and all the scalings.

FOffering+FAttacks+MDamage+EFocus+ALDamage+Wrath 21515
FOffering+Multistrike+MDamage+EFocus+ALDamage+Wrath 22174
FOffering+Multistrike+MDamage+EFocus+FAttacks+Wrath 22105



Here are some numbers I ran for my Guardian:
Base+Wrath 4649
ALDamage+Wrath 5664
PtLightning+Wrath 5297
ALDamage+PtLightning+Wrath 6344
MDamage+ALDamage+PtLightning+Wrath 9839
EFocus+MDamage+ALDamage+PtLightning+Wrath 15027
FAttacks+MDamage+ALDamage+PtLightning+Wrath 13635
Multistrike+FAttacks+ALDamage+PtLightning+Wrath 11953
Multistrike+MDamage+ALDamage+PtLightning+Wrath 13378
Multistrike+MDamage+FAttacks+ALDamage+Wrath 16542
Empower3+Multistrike+MDamage+ALDamage+Wrath 11938
Empower3+Multistrike+MDamage+PtLightning+Wrath 11261
Empower5+Multistrike+MDamage+PtLightning+Wrath 11339
Empower3+Multistrike+MDamage+EFocus+Wrath 15017
Empower3+Multistrike+MDamage+FAttacks+Wrath 13594
FOffering+FotSaints+MDamage+EFocus+Wrath 18424
FOffering+FotSaints+MDamage+ALDamage+Wrath 14646
FOffering+FotSaints+MDamage+FAttacks+Wrath 15166
FOffering+FotSaints+Multistrike+MDamage+Wrath 16383
FOffering+FotSaints+Multistrike+FAttacks+Wrath 13129
FOffering+FAttacks+MDamage+EFocus+ALDamage+Wrath 21515
FOffering+Multistrike+MDamage+EFocus+ALDamage+Wrath 22174
FOffering+Multistrike+MDamage+EFocus+FAttacks+Wrath 22105

If you need anything else, post up here, I just won't have the time to actually run the numbers for you. Good luck!
Last edited by DBawss on Jul 15, 2016, 9:40:33 PM
"
Simplesim45 wrote:
What can increase the damage dealt from the leo mod "deals x-y physical damage to attackers on block" and other similar mods?


The proper wording is "Reflect". If it were actually "deals",you would be the source (which makes all the difference).

The damage comes from the enemy itself, so naturally, anything that makes your enemies take more damage will also boost Reflected damage.


"
Simplesim45 wrote:
Does Singularity increase it?


No.


"
Simplesim45 wrote:
Does Vulnerability increase it?


Yes.


"
Simplesim45 wrote:
Does the mod "increased damage by x%" (often seen on jewels) increase it?


No.


"
Simplesim45 wrote:
Also what was the reason behind the decision to make this so difficult to scale up as opposed to all the more multiplers everything is getting. This already cannot be linked to any gems, so I can't figure out why it'd be unaffected by most things


There are ways of boosting and stacking it's damage, but it's not that easy, viable or simple. Here is a Reflect based build:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/954444

It's not viable because you are simply too vulnerable, but this build proves how high damage reflection can scale.

Here are other stuff that reflects damage and they all stack:

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Damage_reflection

Shocking your enemies will also increase their damage taken and there are surely other gears, curses and skills that make them take increased damage.

I hope I have helped.
Last edited by DBawss on Jul 16, 2016, 7:26:23 PM
DBawss, you are wrong. Read the wiki page you liked once again.
IGN: Freeeeez | /u/Freeeeez
I was testing out mechanics when having a maximum of zero power/frenzy/endurance charges with corrupted jewels.

I noticed that equipments that grant buffs based on being at maximum charges of a specific type do not trigger if your maximum charges your character can have are zero (which could be interpreted as being at a max charges).

Considering that 3 jewel sockets on a passive tree + 3 corrupted jewels need to be utilized to create this scenario, I find it extremely disappointing that 'Gain Rampage while at Maximum Endurance Charges' criteria on wyrmsign gauntlets, or other items with similar triggered buffs or effects 'at max charges' don't work.

Is this a bug or something the devs could consider making work to create some more interesting builds?
I don't like the Lab, but I put up with it because I need ascendancy points -_-

Betrayal is bad
Delve is good
Synthesis is a buggy, tedious, and unrewarding mess
Last edited by ChristinaAnn on Jul 16, 2016, 2:39:38 PM
DBawss thanks helped a lot

While i decided about gems, interested does Spell Echo's "10% less damage" reduce dmg from SRS?


Sorry for my bad English. Crit bow Ranger 97 lvl.
"
LazerDeath wrote:
DBawss thanks helped a lot

While i decided about gems, interested does Spell Echo's "10% less damage" reduce dmg from SRS?


Sure, the math would look something like this:

Actual Damage =
SkillDamage*(SumOfIncrases)*1.49(MinionDamage)*1.49(MeleePhysicalDamage)*0.9(SpellEcho)

Actual DPS =
ActualDamage*[SkillCastSpeed*(SumOfIncrases)*1.7(SpellEcho)]

Last edited by DBawss on Jul 17, 2016, 8:02:58 AM

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info