I never want to play the labyrinth ever again.

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666lol666 wrote:

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Mal_function wrote:

I absolutely hate the way Izaro teleports you onto a big pile of sawblades. Completely unescapable even with a movement skill, ....

I really hope you are just kidding. A few seconds before he would teleport you a big bright green spot appears under Izaro and all you have to do is walk away for a few seconds. That's so fkn easy I could teach that shit to my grandma without any problems. I know face is the place but sometimes moving away for a few seconds isn't that bad. ^^

All I see is a major splat of visual effects, mine, Izaro's and all the rest of the mobs. Is there a green dot? Maybe, under all those fireworks....

I have had a day of thought on what kind of game i actually would play.

• Point 1: make the puzzles/traps harder by difficulty. more complex, more randomized, more damaging
• Point 2: add a waypoint to each area. waypoints can be accessed from the labyrinth lobby, but reset when the labyrinth layout changes.
• Point 3: keep keys and other bonuses in your inventory upon leaving the labyrinth. treat them like quest items (so you can't stash them). they also reset when the labyrinth layout changes.

this solves the two main issues i raised in the original post. the labyrinth gets easier on normal difficulty, so people who are new can test out the waters without facing this seemingly insurmountable wall at once, and higher difficulties pose an actual difficulty progression. and if some parts of the labyrinth is harder than others, you can focus on that part alone, and don't have to rerun shit you already solved over and over again.

this basically turns the labyrinth into a new act, that changes daily. with some puzzle-traps sprinkled in.

"

Turtledove wrote:

It is absolutely not true that the labyrinth can be ignored and then I have my old game. They have nerfed some aspects of the old game to at least semi-compensate for the ascendancy points buff. And all future content is going to have the ascendancy point buff taken into account as the new content is designed and implemented. It is reasonable to argue that Atziri is optional or Merciless Malachai is optional or many other pieces are optional. It is not reasonable to say that the ascendancy points are optional.

Arguable. Most ascendancy nodes are about flavor and specialization rather than raw bonuses. It will be harder, but not gamebreaking (at least until high level maps). It's more accurate to say you won't be able to do a lot of builds without them.

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Turtledove wrote:

The ascendancy point buff is NOT worth doing the not fun labyrinth. I would rather go play another another game. So I am not going to "make the effort for them". I play the game for fun, not any other reason. So it doesn't make sense to me to go through boring tedious content in the game.

There are many potential solutions to how the labyrinth could remain in the game but the ascendancy points are not gated behind the labyrinth. Many solutions that could be easily implemented without significantly detracting from the labyrinth for those that enjoy playing that part of the game.

Many of those solutions proposed would make the labyrinth not worth to run until Merciless, for efficiency reasons (and the game has suffered a lot because of efficiency already). You'd have to come with better solutions that won't screw up the rest. Risk reward.

Effort and fun are not mutually exclusive, specially in a hardcore game.

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Turtledove wrote:

It is absolutely not true that the labyrinth can be ignored and then I have my old game. They have nerfed some aspects of the old game to at least semi-compensate for the ascendancy points buff. And all future content is going to have the ascendancy point buff taken into account as the new content is designed and implemented. It is reasonable to argue that Atziri is optional or Merciless Malachai is optional or many other pieces are optional. It is not reasonable to say that the ascendancy points are optional.

The ascendancy point buff is NOT worth doing the not fun labyrinth. I would rather go play another another game. So I am not going to "make the effort for them". I play the game for fun, not any other reason. So it doesn't make sense to me to go through boring tedious content in the game.

This describes things well I think, agreed.

"

There are many potential solutions to how the labyrinth could remain in the game but the ascendancy points are not gated behind the labyrinth. Many solutions that could be easily implemented without significantly detracting from the labyrinth for those that enjoy playing that part of the game.

2 points behind Malachai kill on each difficulty, rather than lab -> done. I know such won't propably happen, but can always hope :) Would make this used-to-be-awesome game fun to play again.

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ForciblyBaptized wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

There are many potential solutions to how the labyrinth could remain in the game but the ascendancy points are not gated behind the labyrinth. Many solutions that could be easily implemented without significantly detracting from the labyrinth for those that enjoy playing that part of the game.

2 points behind Malachai kill on each difficulty, rather than lab -> done. I know such won't probably happen, but can always hope :) Would make this used-to-be-awesome game fun to play again.

Sure, you could also leave the ascendancy after the labs and do that. Then you get the ascendancy points after the labyrinth or after killing Malachai if you didn't do the lab. So then you would get them an act earlier if you do the labyrinth.

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Turtledove wrote:

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ForciblyBaptized wrote:

2 points behind Malachai kill on each difficulty, rather than lab -> done. I know such won't probably happen, but can always hope :) Would make this used-to-be-awesome game fun to play again.

Sure, you could also leave the ascendancy after the labs and do that. Then you get the ascendancy points after the labyrinth or after killing Malachai if you didn't do the lab. So then you would get them an act earlier if you do the labyrinth.

That solution is bad because ending act IV is more efficient than running the labyrinth at the apropiate level. GGG wouldn't waste content that way.

Any solution they are likely to implement will require an effort greater than running the labyrinth (maybe farm an orb in maps with enough rarity or something else).

The BIG mistake that all you guys who don't like the Ascendancy points being tied behind the Labyrinth like me are making is simply this:

You are arguing with those people on the Feedback Forum who like the whole setup as it now is.

This is the Feedback Forum for GGG, it is *not* a discussion forum for the poe trolls and sh!t stirrers to come into your thread and try to make you look wrong, stupid or bad!

Ignore them.

Remember who you are trying to address with your complaints and suggestions here.

You are not here on the Feedback Forum to argue or discuss or get involved in their blathering.

Just state your case clearly to GGG and let the naysayers stew in their own juice.

Don't feed these trolls!


Remember....this is the Feedback Forum for GGG.

Got it? The Feedback Forum for GGG!


R.

I really appreciate the civil and earnest discussion in this thread; it's quite a relief from the discussion forum... >.>

That being said, I just wanted to say a few things.

1) I agree that ascendancy points aren't optional. I held this view previously, but I have since changed it because your entire character build is now incorporated into ascendancy. Though, I disagree that there has really been major balance around ascendancy. The only things nerfed were crit and poison, and I'm pretty sure those were just OP, not weakened due to ascendancy (res. flasks are the only thing I can think of that were directly nerfed in response). If you are *entirely* set against it, I think you can still play the same game without doing the lab, and pretty much everything is pretty much the same.

2) They can't put ascendancy points behind Malachai or some other quest; the lore wouldn't make any sense. Also, If I had to kill merc. Mal, I'd be dealing with the same problem other people are. I freakin' hate late act 4, and have never yet been able to kill merc Mal on my own. It wouldn't solve any problems except pushing the points from one undesirable (for some) location to another.

3) They could add ascendancy points as a reward for the trials, and make the trials a separate zone that acts like the lab up to the first aspirant's trial. I don't know how this would work, but if they did make it easier to get the points, then I feel they would need to have some reward for killing Izaro, other than his enchantments (though... enough people still run the lab just for that, so maybe it's fine the way it is).


I'm lucky in that I find the lab fun and engaging, and THANK GOD for that, because I dc just about every other run, and if I didn't enjoy it, I would be raging so hard. The last Izaro fight especially, as others have mentioned. I just dc upon aggro-ing Izaro. If I don't lag out, I can wreck him easily with some kiting after I decide the safe locations in the zone. I'm playing a bow char, so I don't have the teleporting problem others do. The actual fights I find pretty easy as long as you have some leech or enough flasks and plan out exactly the paths you can walk ahead of time. I think if they fixed the visual/lag problem, it would go a looong way in improving the over all experience.

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Kroughfire wrote:

3) They could add ascendancy points as a reward for the trials, and make the trials a separate zone that acts like the lab up to the first aspirant's trial. I don't know how this would work, but if they did make it easier to get the points, then I feel they would need to have some reward for killing Izaro, other than his enchantments (though... enough people still run the lab just for that, so maybe it's fine the way it is).

The problem of making a reward worth killing Izaro is that it will be mandatory. Else you can't justify killing him until Merciless.

I am sick and tired of people throwing around the word "mandatory" to describe choices which are optional yet bound to be heavily favored by most everyone. It's like in that one Futurama episode, I'm Bender, and "mandatory" is my "irony."