SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Saltygames wrote:

Lots of dead ends. Part of the whole labyrinth bullshit i guess.

Could just remove it all, would be simpler. Give ascendancy points for killing the gods or whatever they are

Right, tilesets like the Prison are all part of the whole labyrinth bullshit, it's a conspiracy, I tell you. Look, I'm sure the playerbase would just love, and I mean that in a wet and drippy way, to earn their ascendancy points in Strand but that isn't likely to happen.

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raics wrote:

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Saltygames wrote:

Lots of dead ends. Part of the whole labyrinth bullshit i guess.

Could just remove it all, would be simpler. Give ascendancy points for killing the gods or whatever they are

Right, tilesets like the Prison are all part of the whole labyrinth bullshit, it's a conspiracy, I tell you. Look, I'm sure the playerbase would just love, and I mean that in a wet and drippy way, to earn their ascendancy points in Strand but that isn't likely to happen.

im actually not surprsised that people with analytical skills that dont let them get the rule of first run right rule are angry with lab.
it's same when people are angry with cars with mechanical shifts, a bit dumb.

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raics wrote:

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Saltygames wrote:

Lots of dead ends. Part of the whole labyrinth bullshit i guess.

Could just remove it all, would be simpler. Give ascendancy points for killing the gods or whatever they are

Right, tilesets like the Prison are all part of the whole labyrinth bullshit, it's a conspiracy, I tell you. Look, I'm sure the playerbase would just love, and I mean that in a wet and drippy way, to earn their ascendancy points in Strand but that isn't likely to happen.

I'd considering pulling all my future support from Path of Exile if they did that, seriously. :/
And I don't consider that lightly. Let's not go D3, guys.

3.0's boss mechanics are a step in the right direction, let's not take two steps back now.

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Xavathos wrote:

Fruz, quit it with the antagonising remarks, man. He has as much right to talk about the Lab as you do. And even if he's not helping anyone with his current posts, neither are you like this.

Of course he does, but saying "the labyrinth is shit because it has dead ends" is ...
Let's say it's amusing.

And trying to make people believe that haters are the big majority, because a strawpoll that he made in this forum said so is ... in the same category :)


But it's probably pointless anyway.

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Regulator wrote:

you are stuck inside an otherwordly point of view that doesnt make sense even in the slightest. And some audacity claiming things you are one of the main culprits that are the way they are.

I mean you said it yourself, except instead of being directed to me and anyone that wants the lab to remain the only way to get the points you should direct this back to yourself.

It doesn't make any since to have such a high amount of power creep for basically and of the suggestions you have listed in the OP and instead of focusing one one or two and trying to sway us or more importantly GGG into seeing your point of view you just repeatedly cry about the same thing.

Traps suck, no wp to save my shitty progress, blah blah blah.


Its called ASCENDANCY POINTS for crying out loud, but you don't want to ascend you want to just get the stupid power that shouldn't have even been added in the first place without challenge.

I mean come on you have people suggesting they add "difficult" mobs and no traps. Sure so you can just kill them before they have time to threaten you anyway. Thats actually one of the reasons why I think the traps are one of the better ideas GGG have done, because they are a threat to anyone too dumb to overcome them.

Had the lab been introduced 2-3 years ago, I feel like there would have been less "complaints" but because we've attracted more and more casual players there were more complaints then GGG was expected. Granted filtering complaints that are legit from ones just being whinny about having something else to do to min max a character is likely something they had problems with.



Dead ends in lab? You mean the lab that has a map and layouts shared daily?

Remove the traps? You mean the only threat in the lab, the whole idea around a lab is to have various encounters like traps in them.


In terms of OP, perhaps you shouldn't have started this post as QQ one and rather one that focused on stuff. You have set the tone for the rest of the replies and you only have yourself to blame for it. I'll still stick to the statement that you and your bbf turtle (especially him) have spent more time arguing about the lab then you are ever going to spend in it. For someone that dislikes the lab so much you sure like spending a lot of time talking about it.

Yes and dominus is called Dominus the Ascendant but he still dies as fast as a wet fart after a morning shower.

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Pyrokar wrote:

Yes and dominus is called Dominus the Ascendant but he still dies as fast as a wet fart after a morning shower.

Depends on what you had the night before, I guess.

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grepman wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

Or not, better keep talking about how we want power for free (for fucks shake like we want to rival and conquer the world with that power, we just want to fully enjoy and have fun with the game ffs ...)

hm, I want to have fun with the game
I hate excessive power - this is what makes the game not fun for me
I like the lab, and like that its mandatory if you want more power - more shit like that should be in the game imo

so, what do I do oh mighty regulator if they give tons of power and fuck over the lab ?

remember, my opinion is as important as yours and any time you resort to some bullshit collective/majority opinion, you lose your argument.

and.... go. this should be fun.

Aren't you something special? So what if they add an alternative to lab? The points would still be there for you and the other pretentious wk to farm, and get your excitement. The lab would still be there for you and all those who like and enjoy it to conquer, we ain't asking them to be free, we ain't asking for the removal of the lab since we have the basic comprehending capabilities to see that there is a small group of people that for their own reasons enjoy this content, we ain't asking for better rewards, we ain't asking to profit from enchants or lab-only drops, our motives are simple : we want to simply enjoy a part of the game that is so forcefully shoved down our throats, just to have FUN, we ain't gonna antagonize you, we ain't gonna break your helm enchant monopolies, we ain't gonna sell more Death's Door and steal your profits, just to have FUN, to plan builds and actually create them, to see the synergies live and to figure out new ones. We wanna build a fun deck, and we have to go through an arcade to even be eligible for those legendary card drops for fucks shake.

There are over 20 suggestions in the OP, some definitely not thoroughly thought, some too expensive and time consuming to implement but some are almost right. Can you see that? And besides, non of them are as intrusive as the lab currently is for the rest of us, you still want to "prove" your worthiness to some imaginary friend or dangle your e-peen? You can still do it, cause we are suggesting alternatives, and alternatives mean you can still have your fun inside the lab is that is your kind of thing, I'm not judging, everyone gets off in different ways.

And for this hollow argument's shake, what is so disturbing for you all if 50 people (vocal minority and all the PR bullshit) could get even an ounce of fun more by bypassing a content that is undeniably different compared to what they came here for and supported the company? What is so wrong if there were trials by fight, izaro only fights, or even ascendancy orbs? What would be so gamebreaking if we didn't engage in the current system? Is it better with what we have now? Would you feel less capable or worthy if ascendancy points were put behind the trials? Or if any of the lab related content was truly optional would you feel like you achieved less by beating the arcade mini-game? The challenge would still be there for all the platform enthusiasts to beat, we would just have the chance for a different way to get them. So i'm like an adventure/point&click kind of gamer, do you mean that i would find it fitting if they were to implemented solid puzzles that you need hours to figure out to get the points? Its fundamentally wrong to lock character progression behind alienating and non-genre fitting mechanics. Its not wrong to put those said mechanics in the game, god no, i even approved and saluted their bold move with the lab both here and in alpha, but to have it as mandatory requirement that is just plain wrong.

And no ascendancy points didn't originally come with the lab in the deal. They had this awesome idea for prestige classes with unique effects, and later they muffed it up with locking them behind an idea that it was bound to be divisive and controversial. And unfortunately quality control wasn't a thing, back then.

Keep the lab, really its very fine you get to have your fun and in the process make a shiton of wealth to support your plans and builds, its also great you feel like you have accomplished a huge feat by beating the specific content, really I'm glad you all can have fun with it. So now can you tell me why cant we do so too, if our suggestions and the alternatives won't affect literally no-one else besides those discontented with it? Its that simple, really, your favorite content would remain there for you all to prove how good and skillful you are in the (mini)game, it would be there to farm it and gain currency and uniques, but there would be also alternative ways to get ascendancy points for the rest of us.

And all of those coming from an avid fan of challenging but also engaging, fundamentally fun and enthralling games, just like poe was before lab, simply ENCHANTING.

To wrap it up ill post part of Ernest Adam's - Fundamentals Of Game Design :

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You can't make a game that appeal's to action fans, to strategy fans and fans of management simulations by combining Kung Fu, chess and Monopoly- the result would be a mess that appeals to none of them. On the other hand you can include a storyline in a fighting game, so long as the storyline doesn't interfere with the gameplay. The storyline adds depth to the game without driving away its key-market of fighting enthusiasts, and it might attract the interest of who otherwise wouldn't pay any attention to a fighting game

That's why i say, keep lab cause it actually attracts a small audience and it adds another flavor, but as side, optional content. Not only it will be integrated easily that way, the same way other content did too, but it wont cause the problems it has caused. Cant get more simple than that. And please don't any of you dare mention how the lab is the same, the official facts from GGG themselves are public, page 628 of this thread shows some of them, if you are forgetful check them before posting. And please for the love of Zeus, add some thought and effort to your posts.

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Xavathos wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

Yes and dominus is called Dominus the Ascendant but he still dies as fast as a wet fart after a morning shower.

Depends on what you had the night before, I guess.

That's true. I rarely eat at night. Anyway, dominus obviously doesn't deserve that name since goet decided that it's special. Therefore i propose dominus be renamed to Dominus the Wet Fart or, if we want to be more accurate, Dominus the Wet Fart After a Shower Depending on What You Had the Night Before.

But it's kinda offtopic here, or maybe not. Depends on what goet decides it is.

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So what if they add an alternative to lab? The points would still be there for you and the other pretentious wk to farm, and get your excitement. The lab would still be there for you and all those who like and enjoy it to conquer, we ain't asking them to be free, we ain't asking for the removal of the lab since we have the basic comprehending capabilities to see that there is a small group of people that for their own reasons enjoy this content, we ain't asking for better rewards, we ain't asking to profit from enchants or lab-only drops, our motives are simple : we want to simply enjoy a part of the game that is so forcefully shoved down our throats, just to have FUN, we ain't gonna antagonize you, we ain't gonna break your helm enchant monopolies, we ain't gonna sell more Death's Door and steal your profits, just to have FUN, to plan builds and actually create them, to see the synergies live and to figure out new ones. We wanna build a fun deck, and we have to go through an arcade to even be eligible for those legendary card drops for fucks shake.

Then do the challenge once per character, per difficulty and be done with it.


Your alternative would need to meet a massive list of expectations and instead of GGG creating additional content for other purpose, you want them to create it for the purpose of you getting your AC points outside of the lore and principle of ascending.

You've listed a few, suchas you not getting any of the lab specific rewards, well except AC points, but I guess thats your intention after all.

Why not give them after something like a serious of unique maps that interact with each other. Put in a bunch of restrictions too, because according to you, you don't want it easier, you just don't want to deal with traps.


Ok lets see what can we do. Every izaro phase is fully buff with dual swords. Solo only, hes immune to ignite, poison, bleed, taunts, shock and whatever else I'm missing.

Lets not forget how alternatives not only suck up dev time, but also create a scenario where one way, no matter what is the best way to get the points, are you suggesting your alternative would be this or would this be something so extreme that only the few of you that are too obsessed with traps as a design would run?

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There are over 20 suggestions in the OP, some definitely not thoroughly thought, some too expensive and time consuming to implement but some are almost right. Can you see that? And besides, non of them are as intrusive as the lab currently is for the rest of us, you still want to "prove" your worthiness to some imaginary friend or dangle your e-peen? You can still do it, cause we are suggesting alternatives, and alternatives mean you can still have your fun inside the lab is that is your kind of thing, I'm not judging, everyone gets off in different ways.

They all are expensive to implement, the cost is either a massive amount of dev time or the design of the game.

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could get even an ounce of fun more by bypassing a content that is undeniably different compared to what they came here for and supported the company?

Have you played the beta? Have you played against the act 7 boss. The lasers across the room are very similar to how traps work to the extent that you need to re position or look at patterns.

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What is so wrong if there were trials by fight, izaro only fights, or even ascendancy orbs? What would be so gamebreaking if we didn't engage in the current system? Is it better with what we have now? Would you feel less capable or worthy if ascendancy points were put behind the trials? Or if any of the lab related content was truly optional would you feel like you achieved less by beating the arcade mini-game? The challenge would still be there for all the platform enthusiasts to beat, we would just have the chance for a different way to get them. So i'm like an adventure/point&click kind of gamer, do you mean that i would find it fitting if they were to implemented solid puzzles that you need hours to figure out to get the points? Its fundamentally wrong to lock character progression behind alienating and non-genre fitting mechanics. Its not wrong to put those said mechanics in the game, god no, i even approved and saluted their bold move with the lab both here and in alpha, but to have it as mandatory requirement that is just plain wrong.

First of all you are wrong, it does fit the genre, traps have been in ARPG games and continue to be put into ARPG games all of the time.

Guardians of Ember, a hack and slash style mmorpg\mmoarpg hybrid has various traps that can kill you as well.

Ascendancy orbs are illogical as currency, currency in poe serve multiple purposes and interacts with multiple systems. Even regret orbs serve more purposes now then just allowing you to respec passive skill points, like making level 1 gems.

What would be so gamebreaking if you just did the challenge setforth in front of you, that GGG decided would be the content you would do. Just like they decide on the act bosses and acts in 3.0. But somehow we've gotten to the point where because you dislike one thing (aka traps) they somehow need to redo the entire thing to work around you and a some other peoples views of OMG i take damage if I touch this thing wtf GGG this isn't challenging, but it is at the same time because people die to it frequently. Lamo


"mandatory" You want the power, you need to earn it. Asking for another way to get said power is IMO almost as bad as asking for it for free, which you've listed ideas that did just that. To me that proves your character and stance on this issue beyond anything you've said recently.

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And no ascendancy points didn't originally come with the lab in the deal. They had this awesome idea for prestige classes with unique effects, and later they muffed it up with locking them behind an idea that it was bound to be divisive and controversial. And unfortunately quality control wasn't a thing, back then.

They had the idea of the classes, but no challenge to pair it with, until the lab. They've already went over this AC classes at first were much weaker then they are now and they didn't want to rush it with 2.0 as well. So they went back and redesigned the classes and designed the lab for the additional challenge to be the way to get the power.

Unfortunately, people like you can't get passed the idea that they don't give a fuck if you dislike traps.

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Keep the lab, really its very fine you get to have your fun and in the process make a shiton of wealth to support your plans and builds, its also great you feel like you have accomplished a huge feat by beating the specific content, really I'm glad you all can have fun with it. So now can you tell me why cant we do so too, if our suggestions and the alternatives won't affect literally no-one else besides those discontented with it? Its that simple, really, your favorite content would remain there for you all to prove how good and skillful you are in the (mini)game, it would be there to farm it and gain currency and uniques, but there would be also alternative ways to get ascendancy points for the rest of us.

That isn't how it works, 2 ways to get the same thing, as stated before then creates a tention on why there are 2 ways to do the same thing. For example can't you see how anyone that likes the lab or the fact you need to do it to get the ac points would be upset if GGG wasted dev time making it so you had an "alternative" instead of making new content.

Find a situation in history of gaming where an alternative was made and it quenched all of the complains and didn't have a negative impact. I doubt you find one, but would be interested in seeing what you come up with.



TBH I think you were closer to getting GGG to implement an alternative path where it cost you as a player more, for there to be less traps, since that seems to be the only fucking thing you care about. But nope, like the original post you lack direction and focus.