SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

I think a lot of users don't understand just how detrimental removing a challenge to get something would be to their experience and the overall player retention of the game, If you do not feel accomplished by anything you do it is very likely you will get bored quickly as everything you want is already in your hands and you have nothing left to work for and then you will quit and be much less likely to return.

I develop content for a few games and have hosted servers for many more and one thing i really dislike about both of these things is it tends to have a negative effect on your need/want to do things as a normal user in a game as often you are working with creative tools developing content or as an admin spawning things in for various reasons that are generally unavoidable you and devalue the experience of playing the game normally, This is a big reason i play POE as here i have no control over what i can do outside of what i earn myself and trade for, I am here to be that powerless exile reaching for the sky.

I would agree making the lab more engaging and interesting to run might be something that should be done but by no means is it so cumbersome that it legitimately stops you from being able to unlock your ascendancy if you are the proper level and decently geared, in many ways the labyrinth is almost a skill and gear check, despite this carrys are extremely abundant for lab, myself and many others often carry people through lab for no fee whatsoever, I simply ask of them to pass the favor on if they can when they too are strong enough to do so.

Many games have checks like this to gate unlocking classes and especially in this case an advanced class and if anyone here thinks Labyrinth is an example of a difficult gating method i could refer you to several games in which were much more difficult and threads like this were not common if they ever existed at all, Imagine if you had to run the Lab solo and you could not be carried.. even then i would still be making roughly the same arguments here.
Last edited by SilentSymphony on Sep 5, 2019, 9:17:41 PM
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I think a lot of users don't understand just how detrimental removing a challenge to get something would be to their experience and the overall player retention of the game, If you do not feel accomplished by anything you do it is very likely you will get bored quickly as everything you want is already in your hands and you have nothing left to work for and then you will quit and be much less likely to return.


That's true! And I'm fully on your side with that statement in the general view.

But - and that is the important part - the TYPE of challenge is important.
Putting the Ascendancy behind challenging boss-fights or interesting and challenging (for the specific state of progression) content is fine, and something people usually like.
The current situation though is that we're moving from an ARPG more into a platformer-type gameplay with Lab, not as a side-mechanic (where it would be fine once again) but as a core-progression system. That's not good.
Instead offering a challenging fight up-front to unlock the Ascendancy and then allowing the movement through the lab to get the enchants and other rewards is a viable suggestion.

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I would agree making the lab more engaging and interesting to run might be something that should be done but by no means is it so cumbersome that it legitimately stops you from being able to unlock your ascendancy if you are the proper level and decently geared, in many ways the labyrinth is almost a skill and gear check, despite this carrys are extremely abundant for lab, myself and many others often carry people through lab for no fee whatsoever, I simply ask of them to pass the favor on if they can when they too are strong enough to do so.


Exactly, 'engaging and interesting' is the main gripe here. Lab isn't hard... it's just a major bother, one where people start thinking 'ugh... I have to go through it again? Man, that sucks!' no matter the stage of the game.
Also Lab isn't a very 'good' skill-check, it's remembering the timing of the specific puzzles for weaker character and just rushing through for well-build ones. This doesn't go into the same category as the split-second reactions some of the bosses tend to require at times. Simply memorizing the layout and then moving according to the spawned traps isn't a challenge for an ARPG-style game, it's a chore here. Some like it, others absolutely don't as they are here for... well... ARPG-stuff and not platforming.

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Many games have checks like this to gate unlocking classes and especially in this case an advanced class and if anyone here thinks Labyrinth is an example of a difficult gating method i could refer you to several games in which were much more difficult and threads like this were not common if they ever existed at all, Imagine if you had to run the Lab solo and you could not be carried.. even then i would still be making roughly the same arguments here.


Also absolutely true. Though the majority also keeps 'true' to the 'core' of their experience. Just take Grim Dawn as an example. You need to get the shrines there to build up your character, nonetheless the shrines are 'kill a bunch of mobs which spawn' or 'bring a crafting-related item to me', the HC-style dungeons are actually challenges, get through and get big rewards by killing a fairly strong boss at the end, kill stuff along the way.
The same happens in the majority of games. Remnant from the Ashes unlocks stuff by killing bosses, Dark Souls does the same + rewards exploration (as that is a big part of the game). None of them suddenly tell you 'Oh well, let's have you play a building-simulation' for example, they stay true to their play-style. Lab is the contrary of that.
GGG balance is like getting a pizza which is burnt on the sides, raw in the middle and misses the most of the toppings.
Then upon sending it back you get a raw side, burnt middle and enough toppings to drench everything in grease.
Everything fixed but still broken.
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I think a lot of users don't understand just how detrimental removing a challenge to get something would be to their experience and the overall player retention of the game, If you do not feel accomplished by anything you do it is very likely you will get bored quickly as everything you want is already in your hands and you have nothing left to work for and then you will quit and be much less likely to return.

I develop content for a few games and have hosted servers for many more and one thing i really dislike about both of these things is it tends to have a negative effect on your need/want to do things as a normal user in a game as often you are working with creative tools developing content or as an admin spawning things in for various reasons that are generally unavoidable you and devalue the experience of playing the game normally, This is a big reason i play POE as here i have no control over what i can do outside of what i earn myself and trade for, I am here to be that powerless exile reaching for the sky.

I would agree making the lab more engaging and interesting to run might be something that should be done but by no means is it so cumbersome that it legitimately stops you from being able to unlock your ascendancy if you are the proper level and decently geared, in many ways the labyrinth is almost a skill and gear check, despite this carrys are extremely abundant for lab, myself and many others often carry people through lab for no fee whatsoever, I simply ask of them to pass the favor on if they can when they too are strong enough to do so.

Many games have checks like this to gate unlocking classes and especially in this case an advanced class and if anyone here thinks Labyrinth is an example of a difficult gating method i could refer you to several games in which were much more difficult and threads like this were not common if they ever existed at all, Imagine if you had to run the Lab solo and you could not be carried.. even then i would still be making roughly the same arguments here.
I'd suggest reading through the OP before chiding others. A number of the suggestions given there for alternative ways to earn ascendancy would make the process of earning them harder, not easier.

Like many others, I find Mario's Maze to be an out-of-genre borefest. As well, the lore is ridiculous and gameplay is disconnected from the rest of the game, which makes the experience feel non-immersive. At this point even fighting Izaro, which used to be the highlight of an otherwise boring experience, has become stale.

The only good points about Mario's Maze are that it doesn't take much time anymore and you get useful rewards at the end.

I find it unfortunate that we define our characters in such a generic and disappointingly boring way. I also find it disappointing that GGG doesn't aim higher, doesn't even try to make the lore make sense, and doesn't seem to care that a *LOT* of POE players find defining their characters to be a low point in their POE experiences.
Now that prestige classes will finally leave lab in 4.0, will GGG get it right this time or will they find new ways to repeat old mistakes?
Last edited by EnjoyTheJourney on Sep 5, 2019, 11:41:17 PM
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I'd suggest reading through the OP before chiding others. A number of the suggestions given there for alternative ways to earn ascendancy would make the process of earning them harder, not easier.

Like many others, I find Mario's Maze to be an out-of-genre borefest. As well, the lore is ridiculous and gameplay is disconnected from the rest of the game, which makes the experience feel non-immersive. At this point even fighting Izaro, which used to be the highlight of an otherwise boring experience, has become stale.

The only good points about Mario's Maze are that it doesn't take much time anymore and you get useful rewards at the end.

I find it unfortunate that we define our characters in such a generic and disappointingly boring way. I also find it disappointing that GGG doesn't aim higher, doesn't even try to make the lore make sense, and doesn't seem to care that a *LOT* of POE players find defining their characters to be a low point in their POE experiences.


I'd suggest reading before replying as well.

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I would agree making the lab more engaging and interesting to run


Anywho ^ I've had the game on mute since like 2014 and reading wont get me more exalts so lore is only something i occasionally get into.

I'm really only against just giving you the ascendancy for free without any Gating mechanism with some level of difficulty to it, What that mechanism is i do not really care, I absolutely hate running the lab for anything other than ascension.
Last edited by SilentSymphony on Sep 6, 2019, 2:54:41 AM
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Anywho ^ I've had the game on mute since like 2014 and reading wont get me more exalts so lore is only something i occasionally get into.

I'm really only against just giving you the ascendancy for free without any Gating mechanism with some level of difficulty to it, What that mechanism is i do not really care, I absolutely hate running the lab for anything other than ascension.


The complaint is NOT that lab is too hard. The complaint is that it is horrible boring content that doesn't make sense. The game is supposed to be fun not boring irritating crap. Oh, there's a burning floor with a bunch of levers. wait for floor to cool, run to lever, flip lever, wait for floor to cool, run back to where you came from, wait for floor to cool, run to next lever, boring crap, the only thing challenging about it is resisting the urge to quit the game.

Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will apparently fix the issue of having to do lab to ascend in a release prior to PoE2. Yippee!
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Fruz wrote:
has not changed anything, don't expect it ever will



GGG has made many changes to the horrible lab. You just can't resist making false statements. Is it a lie or did you not know that fact?
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will apparently fix the issue of having to do lab to ascend in a release prior to PoE2. Yippee!
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Turtledove wrote:
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Anywho ^ I've had the game on mute since like 2014 and reading wont get me more exalts so lore is only something i occasionally get into.

I'm really only against just giving you the ascendancy for free without any Gating mechanism with some level of difficulty to it, What that mechanism is i do not really care, I absolutely hate running the lab for anything other than ascension.


The complaint is NOT that lab is too hard. The complaint is that it is horrible boring content that doesn't make sense. The game is supposed to be fun not boring irritating crap. Oh, there's a burning floor with a bunch of levers. wait for floor to cool, run to lever, flip lever, wait for floor to cool, run back to where you came from, wait for floor to cool, run to next lever, boring crap, the only thing challenging about it is resisting the urge to quit the game.



Exactly where did i say it was too hard or at any level even say it was hard? Lab is stupid easy.. I only said that if it is changed it should remain(you know like, not some stupid piddly quest where you just pick up a flower and turn it in) difficult as a means to put the ascendancy behind a gate one must earn passage through.

gosh lol does anyone even read posts before replying to them these days?
Last edited by SilentSymphony on Sep 6, 2019, 3:32:23 PM
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Exactly where did i say it was too hard or at any level even say it was hard? Lab is stupid easy.. I only said that if it is changed it should remain(you know like, not some stupid piddly quest where you just pick up a flower and turn it in) difficult as a means to put the ascendancy behind a gate one must earn passage through.

gosh lol does anyone even read posts before replying to them these days?


Sorry, the following seemed to be saying that users wanted the challenge removed

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I think a lot of users don't understand just how detrimental removing a challenge to get something would be to their experience and the overall player retention of the game, If you do not feel accomplished by anything you do it is very likely you will get bored quickly as everything you want is already in your hands and you have nothing left to work for and then you will quit and be much less likely to return.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will apparently fix the issue of having to do lab to ascend in a release prior to PoE2. Yippee!
"
Turtledove wrote:

Sorry, the following seemed to be saying that users wanted the challenge removed

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Turtledove wrote:



You were replying to the above quote in the image, you should know that, you quoted it.

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I think a lot of users don't understand just how detrimental removing a challenge to get something would be to their experience and the overall player retention of the game, If you do not feel accomplished by anything you do it is very likely you will get bored quickly as everything you want is already in your hands and you have nothing left to work for and then you will quit and be much less likely to return.


but lets assume this was actually quoted in your post, you are not everyone who's posted in this thread, plenty have posted for removing the lab entirely and solutions which would make it trivial, if i were replying specifically to the OP or anyone i would properly quote them.
Last edited by SilentSymphony on Sep 6, 2019, 6:43:18 PM
Welp I'm just here to beat a dead horse but the lab is failed content, [Removed by Support]. This game will die if you don't remove the ascendancy points from the lab. I mean some people like it but some people also like having shit rubbed on their chest. That's what the lab is. I'd give a more mature set of comments and criticisms but you've already got plenty of that. I'm just here to say fuck you for locking the most build defining passives behind this dumpster fire.
Cya guys in 6 more months to 2 years because I'm out. Which sucks because this is by far and beyond the best FTP, the best ARPG, honestly it's just one THE BEST games out there but just no I'm not doing the lab and that means I have a crippled character and that means I stop playing.
Congrats on the other content though it's pretty fucking good. The game plays way more smoothly and feels soooo much nicer than it did two years ago.
God it's pathetic how long this shits been in the game.
Fuck the lab
Last edited by Kane_GGG on Dec 2, 2019, 10:12:41 PM

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