SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

If this was already suggested I apologize, long thread is long.

I'm all for moving the ascendancy outside of the lab. I honestly like the idea of the lab being for the 'thrill' and for the enchantments much more than for something that should be baseline to the experience. But that leaves the problem of where to put the ascendancy after taking it out of the lab.

I feel like the answer is quite simple and it solves another 'problem' with the current end game setup. Put the ascendancy points behind defeating Malachai. Currently there is near-as-makes-no-difference no reason to defeat Merciless Malachai. This would both remove the 'blockage' of the lab timing where most players wait until much later than act 3 to do the lab for their ascendancy and also give a much bigger incentive to defeat Malachai on Merciless.

Also, in the future, it might be possible to move the reward so it is always at the end of the game or simply roll it into the storyline somehow. Something along the lines of Malachai's death awakening the ascendant powers within exiles.

The only real hurdle to this format is how unnecessary the lower labs become. However, this could be adjusted by simply removing the lower enchantments from the higher lab difficulties. So gloves would only be normal, boots in cruel, and helms in merciless. This would mean the glove enchant 'breaks' (word/edict/decree) would have to be level-based instead of difficulty based in order to still have access to the better glove enchants.

All-in-all I really feel like this is a decent option that still leaves the lab as the difficult, time consuming, monster of a 'thing' that it currently is but also really alleviates the pain of having to run it for ascendancy points.
@Phearmark This has been suggested before, but thank you for coming to the same logical conclusion as the others that sought out a solution for this problem.

About the lower level labs becoming unnecessary, it is kinda true, but won't have any impact at all. Chris said that they don't want to change the normal lab so that the new players who tend to stop at normal have a nice experience, so if normal is for those people, they won't know either way and they'll still do normal lab so no harm done.
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
Last edited by Pyrokar on Apr 20, 2016, 3:58:56 AM
I think defeating Malachai could open up a dialogue choice with an A4 NPC to enter a portal and fight Izaro. You have three Izaro fights in a row, with the same mechanics as Izaro has now, with mobs in between that give players a chance to refill flasks. Defeating Izaro would then open up the chance to Ascend, but not offer the opportunity to do enchants. There would also be no treasure chests. The option to run Labyrinth in Act 3 would be left where it is, with all of its rewards in place.

The mechanics for the Izaro fights are imaginative and intricate. It must have taken a *lot* of work to put them together and it would be a shame to let all that work go to waste. A lot of players might appreciate the Izaro fight better (and understand it better) if they have all three fights one after another, without navigating the Labyrinth in between each fight.

Losing enchants and treasure chests and not getting to Ascend until after defeating Malachai makes running Izaro after Malachai sufficiently less rewarding that some players will voluntarily run Labyrinth, especially if some achievements were tied to it. Making Lab a voluntary experience would itself go a long way toward helping to reduce the dislike and hatred a lot of players currently feel toward Labyrinth.

For the record, I don't mind the Izaro fight at all. But, I find navigating the maze and all the traps tedious and un-fun and would find removing AC from the Labyrinth to be a highly welcome change.
Now that prestige classes will finally leave lab in 4.0, will GGG get it right this time or will they find new ways to repeat old mistakes?
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I think defeating Malachai could open up a dialogue choice with an A4 NPC to enter a portal and fight Izaro. You have three Izaro fights in a row, with the same mechanics as Izaro has now, with mobs in between that give players a chance to refill flasks. Defeating Izaro would then open up the chance to Ascend, but not offer the opportunity to do enchants. There would also be no treasure chests. The option to run Labyrinth in Act 3 would be left where it is, with all of its rewards in place.

The mechanics for the Izaro fights are imaginative and intricate. It must have taken a *lot* of work to put them together and it would be a shame to let all that work go to waste. A lot of players might appreciate the Izaro fight better (and understand it better) if they have all three fights one after another, without navigating the Labyrinth in between each fight.

Losing enchants and treasure chests and not getting to Ascend until after defeating Malachai makes running Izaro after Malachai sufficiently less rewarding that some players will voluntarily run Labyrinth, especially if some achievements were tied to it. Making Lab a voluntary experience would itself go a long way toward helping to reduce the dislike and hatred a lot of players currently feel toward Labyrinth.

For the record, I don't mind the Izaro fight at all. But, I find navigating the maze and all the traps tedious and un-fun and would find removing AC from the Labyrinth to be a highly welcome change.


Yeap thats a step in the right direction and a sum of my suggestions. Initially i had suggest to only fight izaro without having to run the lab (no drops, no enchants, not able to party no way to cheese it, he just rewards AC points), or put AC behind malachai. What you suggest combines those two and it actually seems pretty ok effrot/investment-wise. Ofcourse that could be the alternative to what lab is now (though i still believe that ac should not have anything to do with lab at all cause they defy a basic game plan and design GGG follows so many years)
Inundated with cockroaches, I am

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions
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I think defeating Malachai could open up a dialogue choice with an A4 NPC to enter a portal and fight Izaro. You have three Izaro fights in a row, with the same mechanics as Izaro has now, with mobs in between that give players a chance to refill flasks. Defeating Izaro would then open up the chance to Ascend, but not offer the opportunity to do enchants. There would also be no treasure chests. The option to run Labyrinth in Act 3 would be left where it is, with all of its rewards in place.

The mechanics for the Izaro fights are imaginative and intricate. It must have taken a *lot* of work to put them together and it would be a shame to let all that work go to waste. A lot of players might appreciate the Izaro fight better (and understand it better) if they have all three fights one after another, without navigating the Labyrinth in between each fight.

Losing enchants and treasure chests and not getting to Ascend until after defeating Malachai makes running Izaro after Malachai sufficiently less rewarding that some players will voluntarily run Labyrinth, especially if some achievements were tied to it. Making Lab a voluntary experience would itself go a long way toward helping to reduce the dislike and hatred a lot of players currently feel toward Labyrinth.

For the record, I don't mind the Izaro fight at all. But, I find navigating the maze and all the traps tedious and un-fun and would find removing AC from the Labyrinth to be a highly welcome change.


Another wonderful solution proposed! Thank you
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
I wish they would just say they aren't ever going to do this sort of change, they could have on the podcast I think and I missed it, but this thread still going on is just funny to me.

https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
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Perq wrote:
At the same time, GGG states that this is one of the best leagues in terms of player retention (aka, people doesn't quit after/before doing Brutus/Lab/Merciless).


That's perandus (and its economy allowing everyone to make pretty much any build), not the labyrinth.

Wait until next league, where apparently we'll lose Perandus and keep the mandatory labyrinth.
We'll see what the players retention will be, then.
Please. No more labyrinth.
Hey exiled friends :)

wanted to share my point of view regarding the lab and ascendancy points.

first of all i have a very bad laptop yet i love to play poe (on the lowest settings).
its like that:
rogue exile somewhere nearby = i lag
i am close to a perandus chest = i lag like shit
rogue exile in a strongbox = screen freeze and i am dead

but i am not even mad.. i got used to it and hey i know that it is my problem and that is why i play standard. i can die as many times as i want, ok in maps only six times, yet i am totally fine with it.

The lab is actually the first time i feel like being punished the hardest (for having a shitty laptop). I have endless tries to kill malachai, I have 6 tries to kill Aziri... and only one try for Izaro? Its like playing "hardcore" on standard. I managed to fully ascend only once with my ranger playing in psc, and after that i never entered the lab again. for me its all about the ascendancy points.. i dont care about enchantments(they would cause more lag for me anyway).

the fight vs Izaro is more or less doable for me, only his green missiles cause huge lags. but the worst thing is to enter Izaros room where the fight takes place. sometimes it takes me ages to load, and sometimes i just get disconnected (like loading ledge and docks based maps).I blame neither the lab nor ggg because i know that it is my own fault. But until now ggg always managed to deliver content , even i could "enjoy".

In my opinion the ascendancy points should be removed from the lab, or the player should be given more tries.
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veildream wrote:
Hey exiled friends :)

wanted to share my point of view regarding the lab and ascendancy points.

first of all i have a very bad laptop yet i love to play poe (on the lowest settings).
its like that:
rogue exile somewhere nearby = i lag
i am close to a perandus chest = i lag like shit
rogue exile in a strongbox = screen freeze and i am dead

but i am not even mad.. i got used to it and hey i know that it is my problem and that is why i play standard. i can die as many times as i want, ok in maps only six times, yet i am totally fine with it.

The lab is actually the first time i feel like being punished the hardest (for having a shitty laptop). I have endless tries to kill malachai, I have 6 tries to kill Aziri... and only one try for Izaro? Its like playing "hardcore" on standard. I managed to fully ascend only once with my ranger playing in psc, and after that i never entered the lab again. for me its all about the ascendancy points.. i dont care about enchantments(they would cause more lag for me anyway).

the fight vs Izaro is more or less doable for me, only his green missiles cause huge lags. but the worst thing is to enter Izaros room where the fight takes place. sometimes it takes me ages to load, and sometimes i just get disconnected (like loading ledge and docks based maps).I blame neither the lab nor ggg because i know that it is my own fault. But until now ggg always managed to deliver content , even i could "enjoy".

In my opinion the ascendancy points should be removed from the lab, or the player should be given more tries.
Sorry games shouldn't be balanced around people having terrible computers.
Made the OP even more explanatory (seems that the comprehending abilities of our lovely community arent as high as i expected). Added links to videos and articles that support the whole point and suggestion. Its more than enough to help anyone get the grasp or at least shut up some mouths spreading bullshit.

Inundated with cockroaches, I am

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions

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