CI and Labyrinth traps

OK, for all these trolls posting how easy Lab is as CI blablabla, two things:
1) James is an ass, and we won't b... oh, sorry wrong line.

But in all seriousness:
1) Post a video of yourself doing Lab as CI in a hardcore league, until then, stfu.
(And why I say hardcore league is exactly because we're talking about getting out of trouble upon taking Lab trap damage, Life vs. ES).
2) You all seem to be missing the main point here which is - and I repeat this for the last time - Life builds can easily use their HP flasks in an emergency situation in regards to traps, while ES builds cannot, even though they both take the exact same amount of damage from traps. That's it. That's all I want ppl - devs in particular - to acknowledge. How difficult or easy Lab is for you, or how you adjust your build to have regen, or how you replace all your gems with vaal disc-s or whatever the hell, is completely irrelevant.

So, awaiting your next ridiculous non-argument. What's it gonna be? That Life builds don't actually use HP flasks and therefore it's balanced? :)

the argument is two fold:

- you are not supposed to get hit in the first place. and lab is designed as such that you pretty much CAN avoid all damage. if you get downed then in most cases it is up to user error. running along rotating blades is a stupidity. being bbq'd by lava - same. so what is so dangerous that kills you? spike traps are 100% avoidable - you just have to wait 2-3seconds. and you arent speed running this content so what is the problem with that?

- not all builds are equal. you wont be building CI for lab speed runs. (btw - eating traps is time-inefficient so life builds are not exactly doing that)

CI has so many other perks that weakness in one area (area you are to run 3 times - farming is entirely optional) is OK


btw. cute 'stfu', tells a lot about a poster

It does seem like Energy Shield is worse for the labyrinth than life, so CI being all ES would be the most disadvantaged of all. The Int/ES portion of the tree also tends to lack other things that offer tangential benefit against traps like move speed and life regen (which applies while taking damage, or between consecutive traps while ES is on cooldown, which particularly important when just lightly grazing the outer edge of a moving trap).

Since every potential build does have to go through the labyrinth, it isn't good for them to be drastically inequal, yet the bias is consistently stilted against Int/ES characters. So if traps counted ES slightly less than life to compensate for this it could still be fair.

However, there will always be some builds better at certain things than others. There are builds specifically designed to do well in the labyrinth, and a more generalized PvE character will always be weaker than that specialist when it comes to the labyrinth. So you're never going to be as strong as everyone else when it comes to the labyrinth. The fact that others have it easier than you isn't necessarily important, because they might be playing lab specialists while you are not. That's normal and acceptable.

@sidtherat
your trolling also says a lot about you. nothing wrong with telling trolls to stfu and gtfo.
you're just repeating the same shit now, even though I've just explained how it's irrelevant to the main point. do you even comprehension bro?
you can run your mouth all you want, but noone who's attempted Lab as CI takes you seriously.
that's a really cute theory you got there about avoiding all damage from traps. once again, post a video of doing Lab as CI in a HC league, stop regurgitating the same non-argument.

@PolarisOrbit
it's normal and acceptable? absolutely disagree with that last part. Lab is obviously a core part of the game now, and everyone will want to get their Ascendancy class and skill points. If you choose a non-Life build you're severely penalized. That isn't normal nor acceptable. Again, I implore you, take a look at youtube/twitch.tv, observe the ratio between Life vs. non-Life builds that are being played in this expansion. It's abysmal, and having to complete Lab plays a huge part in that.

each and every league starts with life builds. each one. and each time people claum that CI is weak and demand buffs because of that

and each time they are proven wrong. this is gear dependent playstyle and early in the leagues people select easy mode gearing - life + charity uniques from the dealer. late in the leagues CI starts to outpace life builds due to sheer buffer ir provides allowing for stupid mistakes to be unpunished


and CI. my CI witch has 3 passives and desired enchamts. i have no problems running the lab. it might be easier for life builds and it most probably is. but what you demand is bollocks. easy mode here and easy mode outside the lab. because CI when geared is an easy mode. accept that you cannot facetank traps and move on. if you cannot - pay someone who will show you how it is done. it is possible. it is quite easy in fact.

you havent answered me what kills you so fast that you demand an easy way out. do you makro-logout btw?

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sidtherat wrote:

late in the leagues CI starts to outpace life builds due to sheer buffer ir provides allowing for stupid mistakes to be unpunished

Except that "sheer buffer" does nothing against traps. You'll die to some trap layout (because of an aforementioned mistake) with 20k ES as easily as you'll die to the exact same layout with 2k ES.

I might be wrong, but to my understanding, more than 99% of players cannot clear the Normal Act 4 in fresh league as CI in HC league, let alone the Labyrinth.

Currently GGG is offering the CI as an end game only viable option for most of the players but those skillful posters around here in this forum since the act 4 introduction.

I think it will be more productive if we argue whether the current CI situation in low and mid levels is ok or not.

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silumit wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

late in the leagues CI starts to outpace life builds due to sheer buffer ir provides allowing for stupid mistakes to be unpunished

Except that "sheer buffer" does nothing against traps. You'll die to some trap layout (because of an aforementioned mistake) with 20k ES as easily as you'll die to the exact same layout with 2k ES.

true. but who forces you to FARM lab with CI? And if you are not farming you can take it slow. what trap layout deals inevitable damage? ive run lab 100+ times already and know that it is possible to avoid 99% damage if one takes his time (like not running along the roombas or being bbq by lava)

CI is not great lab farmer but is perfectly capable of doing it. Same as melee is not great uber killer. and i do not see you asking for fixing that

Well i just got my 2nd occultist last night and ive been farming the piss out of enhancements with the first one and after finally making the transition on the first one once she hit occultist to CI im not see what the problem is here?

I dont even have 30% MS boots.. im running 20 or 25% boots ATM and 2 QS flasks and only one of those has like 27%MS on it and its actually just as easy on her as my Shadow now. As far as izaro goes its actually easier in that regard because i have 11K ES and only 4.2K life on the shadow.

But yeah its not really much different running it on CI other than you dont have life pots which if you got MS on boots and MS rolled on atleast one of your QS flasks and running 2 of them your GTG.

IDK maybe its because ive been speed running it too on days with god layouts as well. The day i really farmed the lab with my CI build it was a great layout with no golden door and only one area with some sketchy traps so it was easy for me to navigate this one in particular. But i mean If you goof up with CI you do still have ES recharge so just stop in the next safe place fill up and move on. The as ive said before is all about MS. But i can also see where people who go in there with life builds relying on health pots to get them through the traps stuggleing hard with CI.. I can definitely see that. But ive got it down to now i dont really need the life pots as much as i need the MS because i can avoid the majority of the traps. But again i have run the place ALOT now for enhancements so. Just keep practicing! And look for layouts like we had saturday because i got my runs down to around 4-5 mins each on that day because the layout was so easy to remember. Some days are very much easier that other to do that place.

I can say one thing about CI.. Once you do make it through that place once and gain those occultist mods with CI... thats some of the most OP shit for ES ive ever seen. One maps with tons of mobs ive hit 5-6K ES regen. And the not being interrupted once you start to recharge is very nice as well especially in the lab. So with that said honestly the worst part of doing the lab CI is going to be the first... because my CI build is redculously tanky now after doing the lab. So its well worth the effort for CI to get thiers thats for sure.. if your going occultist anyway not sure about the other two.. Elementalist looks a little weak to me but thats just me.

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Bars wrote:

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Starxsword wrote:

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I found it to be extremely easy with CI, even if you fuck up and eat the traps from time to time (it happens), you just wait for the ES recharge and never run out of flasks. To actually die from full HP, you have to actively chase the chainsaws around and try to break through spike doors with your nose. Even grinded the merciless one for good helm/boots enchantment.

How's that possible? When I ran through using CI, I lose ES just as fast as I lose life, I can see my globe just drop. It made making mistakes much more punishing.

If it is easy for CI, then, it has to be trivial for life. For life, you can do something similar, just takes a bit more time, just drop a Rejuvenation Totem and/or use stone golem to regen to full, if necessary.

No trap oneshots you. You can eat single hits easily and regen the damage in a few seconds. If you're dying, you just can't avoid the traps at all. I run with a quicksilver straight through most trap fields, don't even try to avoid. Only spikefields (sometimes) and lava require some planning.

That's correct, no trap oneshots you, but my point still stands. Running through as CI is harder than running through as life.

That said, there are some trap patterns that are difficult to get through. I remember seeing a combination of darts + spike traps with quick 3 patterned rotations. If you mess up once there as CI, you are pretty much dead.
There is also that one combination of rhombus + those slow big saws that hit and retract. In that combination, there rhombus overlap with no breaks in between, but those are the tougher traps that I see. You will definitely get hit if you try to get through it, since there are no breaks.

And of course, there's today's labyrinth, not hard, just long, meaning more chances to make mistakes.

The issue here is making mistakes is costly for CI and not so much for Life. Especially scary if you play Hardcore.
At the moment, even if I can switch to CI earlier, I wouldn't until I finish merciless labyrinth, because it just isn't worth it trying to run through the lab as CI, instead of just a life based character.