CI and Labyrinth traps

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Aim_Deep wrote:

ZO and 10% regen? Thats better than life flasks.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

ZO and 10% regen? Thats better than life flasks.

• Scale off of ONLY your life, not ES. For CI, this would be the usual, to count your life BEFORE applying CI. Upside: also helps non-CI ES users a bit. Downside: This might make make it a LITTLE too easy, since the "effective" health of most CIs are around 1.5k or so, which means that traps might do tiny damage.
• Value ES less for scaling than HP. HP is more valuable against traps, so perhaps damage should reflect this, perhaps only counting 2.5 ES the same as 1 HP. In this case, only count CI as 1 HP. Upside: Pretty fair, helps out all ES users. Downside: might NOT make it enough for CI.
• Make the damage less percentile. Percentile damage can be kind of silly, so perhaps make it a hybrid of SOME percentile, with some FLAT damage. Example: if a Roomba does 12%/sec of your life, instead replace it with, say, 6%, and then what 6% of a low HP pool for that level would be: say, 40, 80, and 120 on Normal/Cruel/Merc. Upside: would help all players, and not "punish" you for having much higher HP. Downside: might make being overleveled a chance to make the traps more inconsequential.

• Visibility. In the darker zones it can be VERY hard to properly plan/time movements without brushing into sawblades or roombas or spikes... So trap gauntlets should really have better lightning than the rest of the zone. This matters more to ES because they are punished FAR harder for their mistakes.
• Collision/line of sight. The door traps are the worst: the vertical ones can catch you, and that's a guaranteed flask pop unless you're CI... Then it's guaranteed RIP. The fact that you can't teleport out of it once stuck is a HUGE oversight. I don't like having to use Lightning warp through EVERY single door just to be safe... And it's annoying to have to wait 10 seconds for it to go down instead of being able to teleport past an active one.

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I_NO wrote:

Don't get hit then <.<? only choice really

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Lachesys wrote:

I don't know if any of you have tried to run the Labyrinth with purely ES but its borderline impossible. If you fuck up as life based and accidentally hit a trap or two, you have panic flasks there to at least save you from death. I've done it as life based a few times and had really close calls with traps that I wouldn't have survived without flasks but I think this difficulty should stay; traps shouldn't be trivial.

But doing these traps as CI seems.... broken. You've got almost no defense against them, even with high regen and Zealot's Oath. The damage dealt and the speed is insane, its so easy to die to traps without really much to do about it other than the obvious "don't get hit".

I know CI has its positives and negatives in terms of incoming damage but there's nothing else in the game that does %based damage to ES and it feels pretty horrid.

I'd like the Labyrinth to stay hard and be deadly and non-trivial but having it borderline non-runnable if you pick CI is sort of.... shit.

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I found it to be extremely easy with CI, even if you fuck up and eat the traps from time to time (it happens), you just wait for the ES recharge and never run out of flasks. To actually die from full HP, you have to actively chase the chainsaws around and try to break through spike doors with your nose. Even grinded the merciless one for good helm/boots enchantment.

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Starxsword wrote:

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I found it to be extremely easy with CI, even if you fuck up and eat the traps from time to time (it happens), you just wait for the ES recharge and never run out of flasks. To actually die from full HP, you have to actively chase the chainsaws around and try to break through spike doors with your nose. Even grinded the merciless one for good helm/boots enchantment.

How's that possible? When I ran through using CI, I lose ES just as fast as I lose life, I can see my globe just drop. It made making mistakes much more punishing.

If it is easy for CI, then, it has to be trivial for life. For life, you can do something similar, just takes a bit more time, just drop a Rejuvenation Totem and/or use stone golem to regen to full, if necessary.

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ACGIFT wrote:

Having finally gotten around to pushing my CI firestormer through the labyrinth... Holy hell did GGG not even think of CI users when they designed the thing. (granted, they pretty much never thing of CI whenever they do ANYTHING, it seems...)

There's actually plenty of ways to rebalance trap damage to make it better tuned to all builds, rather than just making it "ridiculously easy for others." You just have to think of being creative. As far as tuning the trap damage directly, I can think of three options:

• Scale off of ONLY your life, not ES. For CI, this would be the usual, to count your life BEFORE applying CI. Upside: also helps non-CI ES users a bit. Downside: This might make make it a LITTLE too easy, since the "effective" health of most CIs are around 1.5k or so, which means that traps might do tiny damage.
• Value ES less for scaling than HP. HP is more valuable against traps, so perhaps damage should reflect this, perhaps only counting 2.5 ES the same as 1 HP. In this case, only count CI as 1 HP. Upside: Pretty fair, helps out all ES users. Downside: might NOT make it enough for CI.
• Make the damage less percentile. Percentile damage can be kind of silly, so perhaps make it a hybrid of SOME percentile, with some FLAT damage. Example: if a Roomba does 12%/sec of your life, instead replace it with, say, 6%, and then what 6% of a low HP pool for that level would be: say, 40, 80, and 120 on Normal/Cruel/Merc. Upside: would help all players, and not "punish" you for having much higher HP. Downside: might make being overleveled a chance to make the traps more inconsequential.

A few other issues with traps in general could be fixed, namely:

• Visibility. In the darker zones it can be VERY hard to properly plan/time movements without brushing into sawblades or roombas or spikes... So trap gauntlets should really have better lightning than the rest of the zone. This matters more to ES because they are punished FAR harder for their mistakes.
• Collision/line of sight. The door traps are the worst: the vertical ones can catch you, and that's a guaranteed flask pop unless you're CI... Then it's guaranteed RIP. The fact that you can't teleport out of it once stuck is a HUGE oversight. I don't like having to use Lightning warp through EVERY single door just to be safe... And it's annoying to have to wait 10 seconds for it to go down instead of being able to teleport past an active one.

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I_NO wrote:

Don't get hit then <.<? only choice really

...So sayeth the one who was whining about parts of it being overtuned. ;)