CI and Labyrinth traps

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sidtherat wrote:

each and every league starts with life builds.

that hasn't been true for some time, actually, I know for a fact because I've been doing the same ES summoner build for the past x leagues now, and you can transition really early like within the first few days of a new league or week at least, and trade for affordable ES gear.

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sidtherat wrote:

each time people claum that CI is weak and demand buffs because of that

noone claims that and noone is demanding buffs, this is solely about Lab traps. you're attacking a strawman.

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sidtherat wrote:

i have no problems running the lab.

totally irrelevant, as I've explained many times before.

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sidtherat wrote:

it might be easier for life builds and it most probably is.

yes, yes it is.

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sidtherat wrote:

but what you demand is bollocks. easy mode here and easy mode outside the lab.

lol. I don't "demand" anything and certainly not outside the lab, this is only about Lab traps. this is really difficult for you to comprehend, is it not?

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sidtherat wrote:

you havent answered me what kills you so fast that you demand an easy way out. do you makro-logout btw?

Nothing, I'm in Perandus HC. I don't demand anything, can you stop repeating this strawman you created in your head?
I made my own thread about this issue, where I suggested reducing trap damage on ES as a temporary band-aid fix, to make it a level playing field - this is specific to Lab traps ONLY.
I've already cleared it on Normal and Cruel, it was dangerous but not too hard - enjoyed it but definitely not something I'd do regularly. Now my life pool has been shrinking and my ES pool growing too much for it to be worth the risk on Merciless. And I can't be bothered adjusting JUST FOR LAB such as replacing my gems with vaal disc-s etc. just to try mimic life flasks and reduce risk of death.

@Demonoz
bro that's great but we're talking about regular players who happen to choose an ES based build instead of life and they get shafted in the lab when they attempt to obtain their Ascendancy points. not talking about specialized speed running with Occultist nodes like Wicked Ward etc...

Half the damage traps do to ES pool.

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G0rr wrote:

Half the damage traps do to ES pool.

nah that sounds like way overkill, I was thinking 20-30% reduction probably. this should've been done within days after release... or ideally BEFORE release but hey, testing is a luxury I guess(hello Haku stones, Order of the Frozen Sky, etc etc.)

Playing ES is fine till u get to a room full of traps with little to no safe places, then russian roulette starts.

The situation is even more grim with low life builds- u not only have no pots penalty, but u also receive more damage and get poisoned by those flying darts which prevents shield recharge.

Althou by the time going again and again this issue diminishes, but still the risk and stress are higher than with pure life.

At first, I thought it was awful as an ES based character (now CI). Now, though, I don't think it's so bad. The biggest thing is that you have to be really patient and careful. Pause before traps, especially groupings of traps, to see patterns and where you can stop for a second to let ES regen. Lightning warp is also key, you can warp to safe spots and it makes a lot of traps way easier to deal with.

I'm doing 10-12 minute merc runs now, not the best but definitely not the worst.

Patience is the most important part of running lab, easily. If you just run around quickly without thinking and die to traps, you're spending more time restarting than you would have it you had just gone slowly in the first place.

The easiest way to fix this problem would be to simply make the lab traps do less damage to ES.

On another note: I've always felt that it's weird that there is NO way for ES to use life flasks. Like... Life flasks are not regen, not leech and there is no unique for that effect. If CI needs a buff (not saying it does), I feel like that is one thing they could do to make it better.

For CI the traps aren't really hard. Not any harder than for high life builds that can't cheese with pots (because they dont do much). The only ones fucked up are Low Life builds, because the reserved life is taken into consideration for the damage, but well that is a price they were willing to pay.

Most of the traps cannot even kill you in one hit. If you take several that might be more of an issue than being CI. And there is still Vaal Discipline. The labyrinth mainly punishs characters relying on leech to keep their HP/ES high, if you rely on regeneration it gets way easier.

But the best solution likely is to not get hit by traps. The labyrinth was never meant to be fair in the first place, my TS ranger has so high MS that he can just run through traps, the time he is in contact with them is so short that he barely takes any damage. Or just use Flame Dash, since it displaces you it allows to dash straight through traps. The traps are really easy for CI chars, they just happen to be even easier for some other chars.

It is not likely Atziri were the game tells you that you are not allowed to kill her, if your damage happens to be based on ignite. That is an issue, traps are not.

Alright, someone asked for a CI build going through the labyrinth on merc? Here you are. Did a few runs without trouble. It's not HC but I don't play on HC so this is what you get. Blade vortex necromancer CI build with 4.6k ES.

https://youtu.be/Iji62XAjOdQ

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Lacceh wrote:

@PolarisOrbit
it's normal and acceptable? absolutely disagree with that last part. Lab is obviously a core part of the game now, and everyone will want to get their Ascendancy class and skill points. If you choose a non-Life build you're severely penalized. That isn't normal nor acceptable. Again, I implore you, take a look at youtube/twitch.tv, observe the ratio between Life vs. non-Life builds that are being played in this expansion. It's abysmal, and having to complete Lab plays a huge part in that.

That you wrote only about your disagreements with my post when I actually said this:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

Since every potential build does have to go through the labyrinth, it isn't good for them to be drastically inequal, yet the bias is consistently stilted against Int/ES characters. So if traps counted ES slightly less than life to compensate for this it could still be fair.

...It tells me that you aren't interested in having a balanced discussion. You seem to prefer me as an enemy because I only agree with you 99% of the way, but to be an ally I would have to agree with you on the last 1% that no build has any difference whatsoever on their ability to complete the labyrinth. Frankly that is a ridiculous position for you to take.

That you argue against any perceived level of disagreement before acknowledging any common ground tells me a lot about what you're really driving for. You want ES builds to have the labyrinth easier. I want ES build and life builds to have the same difficulty. There's some overlap on those 2 positions, but that isn't the part that you're arguing for.