Please explain what we are winning by buying premium stash tabs?

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HellGauss wrote:

Extra stash tab are far more P2W than the current Premium Stash upgrade. Nobody complains about that too much because it has been so since the beginning. Changing colors and name affects thing only on the client. Extra stash tab and new Premium upgrades modify the behaviour of the character on the server.

However I endorse GGG decision since it is the only way to introduce and gradually test a new trade system without abuses (bots).

Precisely my point. Ties into what I said elsewhere. Everyone accepts a bastard if they've always been a bastard.

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HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

So my contention isn't whether or not this move is pay locked. My query is why get up in arms over this when premium tabs themselves have always been pay locked, have always given an advantage to trading? Now if you felt that way about premium tabs, kudos for being consistent. But if you're just now seeing how things are, if you've bought and used premium tabs without once considering them pay to win but find this change unacceptable, maybe you've been a wee bit in denial.

To be honest this can be referred to extra normal tabs as well, but what i really think is that this approach is not very good for new players since it give them a wrong impression (this is in a grey area for me), and it actually unlock a feature that is a bit more than quality of life.

My guess is that this is going to look like a stain on GGG history and actually can take away some players, especially those more fascinated about the "ethical free to play" thing. It's clear that actually as long as forum scraper exists thats not a huge issue, and even if they stop functioning some premium tab is not so expensive, but being GGG "radical" they have earned "radical" supporters/players that are just very picky sometimes.

By the way what i can't really stand in this complete mess is the attitude of a lot of paying supporters. It seems like they mean "shut up bums". I think that is just insulting and not supporting at all since new guys or small supporters are just likely to not support at all or leave, with in any case is a loss for me, you, GGG and the community. It's like supporting in the wrong way lol.

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HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

Fair call, Mas. I assumed that based on a need to believe it's not a purely financial decision.

I'd ask Chris but you might have noticed they're kind of busy right now. And as much as I heart Bex, she'd just have to bug a dev and well, see the first point.

I'm sure you don't need a source as to why all the devs are extremely busy right now. Which is partly why I think it might be wise to regain a little perspective here. Every person demanding GGG do something about this is essentially asking the devs to drop what they're doing. And what are they doing? The same thing they do every night before a big update. Stressing like crazy and burning all the midnight oil.

I'm not saying you don't have a point. I'm just urging a little understanding that I doubt GGG would have announced this so close to a major update if they planned to change their minds regardless of backlash. If anything I'd so they factored the backlash in before you even made it.

They'd be horribly out of touch and incompetent if they genuinely didn't anticipate these reactions.

I completely understand that they're busy- I'm pretty busy planning new builds myself! :D

I just wish they'd give some sort of a response that would address these concerns. It doesn't have to be a long news post, just a short blurb on the forums saying something like "sorry we can't do it on regular tabs, there's X limitation in the way. In the future, we plan for X to happen" or "sorry for the confusion, this is just step one of the trade implementation, we have plans to change this".

I'm curious about this: if they did anticipate the backlash, why not add a line in the post addressing it? The line about third party tools still working is nice and all, but that didn't really get to the core issue many are concerned about. There are some people losing their minds on the forums about this change on both sides of the issue, and a small response would go a long way, I think.

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HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

The ability to rename and organise your tabs has always been locked behind a pay wall, as you so pointedly put it. And anyone who think that ability doesn't create a gap between freeloaders and paying supporters has been lying to themselves.

...

That was a really small gap, so small that very few players even noticed it. Now the gap got wider - with the potential to widen even more as they improve their in-game trading system - so a lot more people noticed it and spoke their mind. Some are ok with this, some would like GGG to close the gap.
I just wish GGG would tell us their future plans on this subject.

And one more thing: it's indeed a p2w feature, albeit minor. Call it p4convenience, if it makes you feel better...

Mas:

They put stash tab upgrades on sale at a vastly reduced cost after the announcement.

There's your answer. I've no doubt you'll get a more direct one because GGG haaaate looking like the bad guys but to me, that move says it all. You don't offer that service at a bargain price if you're planning to give it away anytime soon. It'd just piss of even more people, namely those buying the tab upgrades at a bargain price.

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HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

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HellGauss wrote:

Extra stash tab are far more P2W than the current Premium Stash upgrade. Nobody complains about that too much because it has been so since the beginning. Changing colors and name affects thing only on the client. Extra stash tab and new Premium upgrades modify the behaviour of the character on the server.

However I endorse GGG decision since it is the only way to introduce and gradually test a new trade system without abuses (bots).

Precisely my point. Ties into what I said elsewhere. Everyone accepts a bastard if they've always been a bastard.

I think it is deeper than that. People did complain about Extra stash tab, it is just largely ignore. The whole issue is tie to one another. Extra stash tab do offer an in-game-advantage. Gaming companies need the money. I think it as an necessary evil. The Premium Stash upgrade give them extra functionality and increase the advantages these extra stash tab give. It just reopen the can of worms.

PS: It doesn't prevent abuse, you just have to buy the Premium stash tab to abuse it. There is a paywall.

People should look at Premium Tabs as a 'Beta key' for new content. It would have been sufficient for Chris to announce that 'We are going to introduce and test new trade features. To prevent abuses and to introduce them graudally, for now we reserve the feature only to users with premium tabs'.

90% less of complains. EDIT: And probabily +50% P-stash sales

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HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

Mas:

They put stash tab upgrades on sale at a vastly reduced cost after the announcement.

There's your answer. I've no doubt you'll get a more direct one because GGG haaaate looking like the bad guys but to me, that move says it all. You don't offer that service at a bargain price if you're planning to give it away anytime soon. It'd just piss of even more people, namely those buying the tab upgrades at a bargain price.

Ehh, I guess I'm just not satisfied with that response. It does kinda make GGG look like they were making a move for more money. I can sympathize with that, and I realize that GGG needs money, but it just doesn't sit right with me. Maybe I'm just an idealist.

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HellGauss wrote:

90% less of complains.

I think that's extreeeeemely naive.

You vastly overestimate this community.

Peace,

-Boem-

Perhaps a less jaded me would start a thread asking the very simple question: is truly fair-to-all f2p a sustainable business model?

But the current me would just post under that: lol, don't be stupid.

God do I ever love GGG for daring to be stupid though. They've done better to avoid biased treatment of paying customers than ANY company ever should. It couldn't last. Not as long as paying supporters are treated like fools by free players and not as long as free players are seen as entitled parasites by supporting players. It wasn't always this way. There was a brief period where paying supporters were appreciated by free players and free players were welcomed by paying supporters. Everyone was just damn glad PoE existed for any and all seeking refuge from You Know What 3. But then PoE stopped being a refuge and more and more people resented GGG for failing to make PoE perfect. Paid supporters started looking like saps and white knights, like fan boys. And free players who had less overt investment in the game started looking like trolls happy to attack a company that does its best not to be Glu or Gameloft or Zinga or any truly p2w f2p "freemium" developer you care to name, if you even have that much experience with genuine p2w f2p.

Despite GGG's best efforts, we created the divisions between paying supporter and free player long ago. No, we didn't even create them. We just accepted the reality of the situation.

The game itself is only now catching up.

I doubt GGG ever will. I hope they never do.