Berserk - and why this class should be immediately changed [Long] [it seems 2.3 fixes it all]

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

Why I think 100% leech is bad:

I've used VoV and 30% leech is pretty damn enough, same as 10% would be. 100% is overkill. a lure. a trap. a big meaningless number meaning nothing.

Unless you're using Retch belt. Then it means shitloads of DPS extra.


And if you need Vaal Pact, you go for it. It isnt even too far, actually.

Also, would be fun for CI build - losing 20% of your LIFE means losing very little for CI. So, we have a MARADEUR subclass that favours CI/lowlife and Vaal Pact.... Wierd kinda..

if you need Vaal Pact you go for it - and you select Shadow/Scion/Ranger and get a better classes to select from. Vaal Pact is ~15nodes from usual Mara nodes. Pretty big price to pay for a CONDITIONAL leech.

CI? This says 'life'. CI has 1 life. This node does nothing for CI.
Low life? There is a Guardian class for that - check it and tell me ONE reason why would you pick Berserk over Guardian for Low Life

Retch belt is a legacy item from Talisman league that will be available only trough Div Cards/Zana maps in 2.2. What other class requires legacy item to work?

and again - this is CONDITIONAL leech. it does NOTHING when you get hit with a barrage of 19% hits. this alone makes it sh..

"

sidtherat wrote:

3. Summary

In summary the Berserk is extremely bland. It brings nothing new to the game - just some numbers there and there. There is nothing new possible with this class that other classes OR pure marauders cannot do. This is a first sign of a bad design.
The second sign is that this class solves no issues melee players have (survivability vs inevitable big hits /no, re-reaching leech cap is not a help/, aoe clear speed compared to ranged. This looks like a class designed to some romantic idea of how berserkers or even melee in general works in this game. But this is a different game where ranged characters clear screens away. Marauder doing slow pong-pong-pong is already undesirable to play (and is not played above mid-level of players at all), bland marauder class doing pong-pong-pong is just bad.

I cannot imagine a build that would say 'I must take a Berserker for it, it is just that good with that class'. There is exactly 0 such builds in existence because Berserker just has nothing in itself. Several melee 'marauderish' builds will work best with duelist or templar starts. Not the other way around.

5. Coda
Done. I have no expectations and little hope as the melee is in an unwanted child state right now. Game gives good toys to popular classes making it even more popular while the least popular classes/gems are ignored and neglected.

Just imagine the uproar when the best ranged class has the stats of Berserker. Just imagine that. But ranged characters are entitled to free +chain or +projectiles, more damage multipliers and great crit. It is just how this game plays isnt it?

Melee gets drawback on their node.

Mate, 100% with you, but that problem general for all melee, but pseudo melee and crit melee at least got more love from GGG, when in same time RT melee and 2H melee left in trash.

GGG do care only about "diversify" and nothing else, they do care how many trash useless little builds they can create and only this, they don't care even a bit about melee or balance.

I'm sure you saw how they ruined game with atziri when only one build could farm 2000 uber per day and accumulate 10 mirror per day... have GGG nerfed that build right away? No. Now they added BladeFall and etc crazy broken spells and Poison mechanic that doing trillion DPS and for 4 months they cant herf it... or they fine with it, when melee doing zero dps, they also fine with it.

As you correct said: "the melee is in an unwanted child state right now" and that would be 2-3 more years, GGG devs dot no balls to add melee survivability and AOE, so they will only care about adding thousand useless gems for "diversify" and that it.

I personally think, that berserk is among the strongest assendancys right now.
Those two life and mana leach notes are global if i understand it right, therefor any damage will benefit from it.
But unfortunatly you have to go towards duelist, for his life and mana leach notes.
With 6 notes spent, you can reach 50% of maxlife leached per sec
(20%base+5% maxlife leached per sec x 100lifeleachrate), half a vaalpact right?
On top of it (of course) you can equipe those atzire gloves.
Bersek also grant a decent amount of damage, 20%overalldmg + 20+25% attackspeed
(thats how i would specc).
But what do i know ;D, the majority of time i watch streams and read forum,
and what i get from it, you take a lot of damage in poe.
I will/want to play a DW-CoC-CoDT-MoM Berserk +(2xAura-rings) :> , Koam 2.0 !!!

You guys are crazy lol. Conditional leech? Yeah NO SHIT like when else would you want leech?

Huh? You want leech when you are at full life already lol??..

Obviously when your life drops that is when you want the leech which is EXACTLY how Berserker works.

Barrage of 19% hits lol? You reaching bro, how often does that happen?

And look at what you have to give up to use VOV. If you run out of vov at boss you are FUCKED.

This class is fking sick. Just because some of you dont know how to use this class until you see it on Twitch, doesnt mean it is trash.


Also to the guy saying 100% attack damage is equivalent to 5 nodes on the passive tree - you saying on average the marauder side has nodes giving 20% generic attack damage EACH. K.

d

"

Pwnzors87 wrote:

I personally think, that berserk is among the strongest assendancys right now.
Those two life and mana leach notes are global if i understand it right, therefor any damage will benefit from it.
But unfortunatly you have to go towards duelist, for his life and mana leach notes.
With 6 notes spent, you can reach 50% of maxlife leached per sec
(20%base+5% maxlife leached per sec x 100lifeleachrate), half a vaalpact right?

it is not how the leech math works. youll reach 25% maxHP/sec but the leech will last twice as long. the only way to raise the leech SPEED is the 'max rate'. other stats increase only the volume leached not the leech speed (once capped). it has NOTHING in common with Vaal Pact. It wont save you from reflect like VP does. it most probably wont even trigger vs reflect (i doubt if reflected damage counts as 'hit')

this is all distortion field big numbers create.

"

On top of it (of course) you can equipe those atzire gloves.

if you do that, you do not need this nodes as Atziri gloves leech on CRIT only and with high crits your normal 2-4% leech is enough to cover your needs. if you can afford Acuities you play Shadow and pick Assassin for crit specialization and you do not need any conditional bonuses

"

Bersek also grant a decent amount of damage, 20%overalldmg + 20+25% attackspeed
(thats how i would specc).
But what do i know ;D, the majority of time i watch streams and read forum,
and what i get from it, you take a lot of damage in poe.
I will/want to play a DW-CoC-CoDT-MoM Berserk +(2xAura-rings) :> , Koam 2.0 !!!

you take lots of damage. that part is correct. but you take it mostly in small chunks. like lots of hits from exploding Porcupine monsters or volley from several Tentacle miscreations or various degens from Maligaro. Big hits - ones that can hit you for 20%+ in ONE HIT are far rarer than you think. unless you play glass cannon - then again - play Shadow as youll do everything you want to do with this class but better and easier

"

Ceryneian wrote:

You guys are crazy lol. Conditional leech? Yeah NO SHIT like when else would you want leech?

Huh? You want leech when you are at full life already lol??..

Obviously when your life drops that is when you want the leech which is EXACTLY how Berserker works.

Barrage of 19% hits lol? You reaching bro, how often does that happen?

And look at what you have to give up to use VOV. If you run out of vov at boss you are FUCKED.

This class is fking sick. Just because some of you dont know how to use this class until you see it on Twitch, doesnt mean it is trash.


Also to the guy saying 100% attack damage is equivalent to 5 nodes on the passive tree - you saying on average the marauder side has nodes giving 20% generic attack damage. K.

there is always one that pretends the shit is in fact candy. sometimes they are right but in most cases they are never again heard of. this case will be the latter. we will see Berserk on twitch as in 'never pick this class, it is lame'.


<20% hits is the majority of hits that happen when you play even remotely tanky character (like, you know, marauder). ive spent several hours during last days checking this stuff out using CwDT/CWS/molten shells to measure damage intake etc. and for a remotely competent player it takes f.. effort to get hit for 20%+ (we are talking about ONE hit, not succession of hits resulting in lots of cumulative damage) even in heavily modded T10 maps

test it, come back tell your story. YT video would be nice to see how you can reliably keep the bonus up (being hit for 20%+ each 4 seconds).

this is CONDITIONAL leech. you match the criteria - you get the leech (that is absolutely nothing special as it saturates your leech cap instantly. cap that youve already reached long ago). you fail to reach the criteria - YOU ARE DEAD. you can twist that and pretend the Earth is flat but there is nothing reliable about this node.

for 4 (FOUR) points you get a cap-saturating-leech that 'might work sometime or might fail when needed'. if you consider this a good deal then I have a brand new bridge for sale!

And if you say 'but Acuities' I say 'pick Shadow/Ranger/Scion/Witch' as these classes have FAR better bonuses (damage and survivability) than Mara

and lol at the 'price to use VoV'. seriously? price is '1.5 flask slot'. one for shock removal and one for VoV. That shock removal can be Granite or whatever you want. and you only gain immortality from it - you can replace your HP flask with VoV. i did. i think it is a fair price for VoV. if you are worried about charges - Pathfinder has you covered. And it has flask effect nodes bringing the leech to ~50% from 30%

you want reliable sustain? check Occultist's right tree: http://i.imgur.com/WOo4rUb.jpg. this my friend is an immortality for 4 nodes. it is really that good.


btw: 100% increased damage is roughly 5 passives if you select correct ones and/or include jewels (and include other bonuses from the nodes as equivalents). Cleaving path is 95% for 5 points. Executioner has a very high average per node and good other bonuses.
It is a bonus that ofc is noticeable but it is nothing comparable to unique functionalities other classes have - 100% block to spell block is insane compared to this node. 'leech stacks over full life' is also sick. pretty much all ranged perks are incredible and easily beat that (+projectile? +chain? 'far shot'? crit on first hit?) are you really raving over 100% increased attack damage node? really? have you seen the alternatives? and - btw - you cannot pick this and that 'insane' 100% conditional leech..

"

Ceryneian wrote:

This class is fking sick. Just because some of you dont know how to use this class until you see it on Twitch, doesnt mean it is trash.

Maybe we don't know how to use this class but you don't know either.
All what you write is just bullshit. This game works in different way.

Boem, double dipping is the wrong term. 100% useful maybe. Fully dipping maybe. But there is no double anything.

Anyway, the builds I see where that would be most advantageous is the 3 2-pronged attack skills. Frost Blades, Molten Strike, and Lightning Strike. In those builds you often had to choose if you were going to boost the melee portion or the secondary portion. You can boost both woth generic attack damage.

Still, I think this subclass is really weak. I was looking at the revealed classes so far to see what would best fit my Ground Slam marauder and came to the conclusion that it would be better as a duelist. Maybe the unreavealed marauder class will be better for my build. But tempory bonuses when you don't really need them is not that helpful. Otherwise we'd probably see a lot more Cast on Melee Kill builds.

Can we PLEASE STOP JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS?!
We have absolutely no idea if GGG nerfs Mana Leech/Regen to compensate for Ascendancy, same goes for all the %IPD.