It's finally time to balance groups

A six person group in POE is messy, unbalanced, and borderline unplayable.

I do not group for fun; and I definitely, do not group for the "social" aspect of asking for a TP. I group in this game to blow through content with minimal effort. A six person group makes 99% of the game so easy, that you could equip a level one skill on your character, and none of your "team mates" would notice. A six person group is a glowing ball of pixilated DPS that churns through content at a staggering pace.

1. Reduce the maximum party size from 6 to 4.
While it is possible to balance a 6 person group in POE it would be much easier to balance a 4 person party. More players means more GFX clutter and more synergistic buffs/auras.
I would also accept the ability to set the limit during party creation.


2. Give players the ability to control the amount of particles. One of the following display options would be very helpful

Display simplified skill effects for:
------SELF--OTHERS
MTX---N--Y
Stand-N--Y

Display partially opaque skill effects
------SELF--OTHERS
MTX---N--Y
Stand-N--Y

Hide skill effects
------SELF--OTHERS
MTX---N--N
Stand-N--Y

Right now monsters are surrounded by a glowing ball of pixalated DPS. When I play in a group I have no F-ing clue what is happening in the center. I play accordingly. I choose a build that does not require a target to deal DPS, and I aim towards the center. If for some reason my HP dips, I spam pots and run away. I'm barely engaged in the thoughtless combat system. My builds are all SPAM Support.

3.Improve targeting.
This solution is tied to over-saturation of pixels, but should be addressed separately. Players need improved targeting options, including a target lock and a target closest command. This will benefit melee the most. Another option is to improve monster visibility. Aside from limiting skill display, GGG should make monsters stand out better. This can be accomplished graphically, or by applying a simple monster size buff/player size debuff for parties. Being able to see monsters or being able to target them would help create more dynamic interactions.

3. Rethink the monster buffs for groups.
The 60% HP per player is not enough. The buffs need to be expanded, providing significantly improved defensive options for mobs. Right now, players can DPS through EVERYTHING. Minimal tactics are required, Boss battles are currently balanced around spike damage, which is insufficient because of seizure inducing issue #2.

I would like to see a scaling mob bonus like:
2 Players----------3 Players-----------4 Players
Increased HP------Increased HP-------Increased HP
Increased Armor--Increased Armor---Increased Armor
Increased Res-----Increased Res------Increased Res
--------------------Increased block----Increased spell block
--------------------Life leach-----------AOE life leach
--------------------Rare mobs fracture--White mobs gain 1 magic mod
--------------------Reduced player attack and cast speed
--------------------Player auras apply at 60% effectiveness

4. Balance player DPS and AOE
Any good game balance needs to trim from both sides. Ridiculously overpowered builds exacerbate an already imbalanced party. Some builds are able to overkill entire packs with a single AOE attack, even with the current HP "buff". An OP build quickly turns the game into follow the leader. There are many balance options to limit player AOE DPS without having to depend of reflect and spike damage, including;

-Add additional stat hard limits to the game, similar to max block.
-Increase the Mana cost of AOE
-Reduce the damage of AOE
-Make melee splash blockable/avoidable
-Have AOE deal 100% at center and 40% at edge of radius.
-Nerf overpowered skills and builds
-Improve diminishing returns for monster freeze/stuns/shocks


For me to actually play the game in a party setting, I need to see what is going on, and have time to interact with the encounter. Without that I'm blindly spamming. Fixing some of the *MAJOR* game imbalance would improve my enjoyment and benefit the overall game.

Unless something is done, POE will continue to deal with the issue of power creep, and SPAM induced malnutrition.

So why can't we use the next league as a testing area for a long overdue re-balance? Add some new dynamics to the game, nerf skills in the league only, disable others.

1/28/16 edited to add additional points

[Removed by support]

Honestly, I think there are a lot of good ideas in this.

Damn I was too late

Already removed by support

Increase regular monsterd hp and//or damage.
Add a random buff of 0% - 80% to regular monstrer`s hp and damage.

"

wrathmar wrote:

When I play in a group I have no F-ing clue what is happening in the center. I play accordingly. I choose a build that does not require a target to deal DPS, and I aim towards the center. If for some reason my HP dips, I spam pots and run away. I'm barely engaged in the thoughtless combat system.

^^^
Tried partying in 2.0, stopped very quickly because of this. I like to at least know what I am doing, and even better - see what the monsters are doing. In parties it is (almost)impossible. You just run with the group and pewpewpew in some general direction (preferrably with highest monster density, but nobody really gaf as long as you stay with the group). Such "social" and "tactical" gameplay...

It's hard to balance increasing monster damage cuz of how balance works (huh sounds sort of circular). Damage quickly goes out of hand if you try linear factors. Also it'd make melee even more bad in party lol.

There should be more risk directed towards entire groups/aoe in features like chain (though the current implementation/instances of chain is actually the opposite of anti-party, in that it only increases risk going from party of 1 -> 2, and actually decreases in potency as party size increases) without needlessly punishing stuff like summoners and totems.

A side note about chain... anybody else feel annoyed in darkshrine when you get the message "some challenges are best faced alone"? I mean seriously I AM alone, just me and my totems, yet somehow a 6man party seriously gonna face less risk increase from this than a solo totem player...

"

biyte wrote:

It's hard to balance increasing monster damage cuz of how balance works (huh sounds sort of circular). Damage quickly goes out of hand if you try linear factors. Also it'd make melee even more bad in party lol.

So it is hard becouse is made somehow.
Poor GGG! How hard must they struggle!
They obviously want it but...it`s so hard.

"

Rethink the monster buffs for groups.
The 60% HP per player is not enough. The buffs need to be expanded, providing significantly improved defensive options for mobs. Right now, players can DPS through EVERYTHING. Minimal tactics are required, Boss battles are currently balanced around spike damage, which is insufficient because of seizure inducing issue #2.

Nah, I disagree on buffing the monsters, it wont solve the cluster fark particle effects generated by 6 players.

Instead, for every additional players we reduce their attack speed, cast speed by <insert balance amount here>. Monster HP stays the same +60%, player dps is slowed, now u finally can see wtf is happening because less particle is produced & players wont blast everything in a sec because they are slowed.

1 Solution solve 2 problems.

Not going to strait up say you are too inexperienced when it comes to the game to comment on group play, but......you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

No to limiting parties to less players.
No to buffing monsters in extreme ways.

No to just everything you said.

"

Fixing this *MAJOR* game imbalance would improve my enjoyment and benefit the overall game.

Your enjoyment......which appears to be what exactly?

Grouping in PoE is obviously beneficial but it also has some issues in terms of synergy and mistakes. Playing in a full party can get you killed due to someone killing a pack of bearers or not calling out volitile blood, aggroing monsters that people aren't ready for, ect ect.

GGG should not be changing one of the best aspects of the game (playing with others) just because you don't enjoy that. Make some friend or you know actually play the game so you have an understanding of what goes on so you can make threads like this. Until you do so I have 0 respect for your thread and anything you suggest, anyone that does their "research" would come up with the same conclusion.

One of my biggest problems with Diablo3 is that they limit parties to just 4 people. I do not want this game to do that.

My only problem with parties is the game optimization. Some spammed skills set my graphics card on fire. Nobody would play in parties if there was this mythimcal "balance" you are trying to obtain. If there was no advantage to playing in a party, everybody would solo. Seriously, if you nerf my attack/cast speed or damage so that parties aren't more powerful than solo, why the hell would I want to play in a party? And increasing monster damage in a party isn't balance, it's punishing. Have you seen the armour formula? Armour is less effective with harder hits. So any armour character is going to avoid parties because the chance of getting killed and losing experience is greater.

So, I disagree with pretty much every one of your suggestions.