just add gold and be done

"

Clownkrieger wrote:

hesmen, i love u :) to many people arround who seem to have studied whats known as "economics" and worship efficency and whats known as "money " above all other. and cant overcome it in a game that should be fun. prolly theyr the same who are longing for imba builds and any sort of easy-accesible e-peens. Because thats what a static currency-system serves most: comparability. Mines longest.

FIGHT CAPITALISM! ITS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL!!! :D

(Not 100% but:)

/troll

(Fyi: im a studied philosopher ;)

LOL. Love the post. Fuck capitalism, it's only there to force me into paying a set price no matter what personal value I give an item.

This Strill person seems to love it though. I can tell all he cares about is trying to become the most rich and never feeling like he might have lost out on a trade. I seriously doubt he understands the true meaning of sacrifice.

"

hesmen wrote:

Hmm... I like haggling and not knowing if I made profit or lost it, but instead being satisfied I got what I needed without feeling raped.

My point is that I don't think the current system will give you what you want or expect. The benefits the devs attribute to barter in the dev diary are not inherent to barter, but rather inherent to an economy bereft of resellers and middle-men. That's true regardless of the currency system.

It's true that barter makes it slightly harder to be a middle-man, but I don't think it will do so anywhere near enough for their concepts to work, especially with the vast price differences they intend for the system to have incentivizing middle-men.

It's not that I particularly disagree with the devs' goals. It's that I think the benefits they want are only tangentially related to the systems they have in place, and will ultimately be the worst of both worlds, having none of the benefits they desire from their barter system and none of the benefits of a uniform currency.

"

It seems to me though all you want to do is sit in the middle, look at numerical values and just exchange lower for higher to make profit. Numbers seem to mean everything to you and I'm sorry to see that it has embedded itself so deep into your brain that you can't stop pinching every penny.

Trade doesn't work that way. Having done trading in plenty of different games I can tell you the judgement calls are much fuzzier and nowhere near as absolute as you're making them out to be. I don't know if there's going to be a change in the price of a finished good before I've sold it so it's a crapshoot whether I'll be making any money off of a given purchase. In fact, I recall in Aion I never bothered making potions with anything less than a 50% gross profit margin because by the time I'd make the potions and put them on the market the price would sometimes be much less than the 50% it was when I bought the materials.

To bring things back into the context of PoE, I could probably expect profit margins of several hundred percent, maybe even a thousand percent in some cases. If the devs really don't want people to stabilize prices and remove the uncertainty you want so much, they need more disincentives for middlemen than just what's in place.

"

In my opinion, monetary value was created entirely to dumb down the idea of value so that any moron who can count can turn profit.

Money was created so that people had to spend less time to trade for what they want, but that's beside the point.

"

Strill wrote:

Money was created so that people had to spend less time to trade for what they want, but that's beside the point.

Then how do you expect a monetary transaction to be personal, meaningful, and rewarding to both parties? You can't, it's too cold and distancing.

"

hesmen wrote:

"

Strill wrote:

Money was created so that people had to spend less time to trade for what they want, but that's beside the point.

Then how do you expect a monetary transaction to be personal, meaningful, and rewarding to both parties? You can't, it's too cold and distancing.

The only thing cold and distancing that makes trades impersonal is the internet itself.

When I say "spend less time", I mean spend less time finding someone to trade with, not spend less time haggling. If you want to haggle in a game with a uniform currency system, what's stopping you? I know I do it all the time.

i think i need a gun.

seriously, reading these threads drives me insane. i really need to stay away from them.

Shhh shhh... calm down. It's ok. NO GOLD FOR YOU! I win.

"

mdavis588 wrote:

I just wish the forum moderators did their jobs and merged repetitive threads covering the same topic into ONE THREAD. Or locked threads where the subject matter just kept going in circles. How hard is it to sticky a "I wants me precious gold" thread in the beta general discussion section & then merge/lock all subsequent threads on the subject? Seriously, this is getting ridiculous.

+666
Moderators please LOCK UP this useless thread, nowhere gonna lead somewhere !!!

"

hesmen wrote:

Shhh shhh... calm down. It's ok. NO GOLD FOR YOU! I win.

Ah well. It was interesting while it lasted.

"

Strill wrote:

Can we please keep things on topic? You're constantly over and over again bringing in things that are not intrinsic components of either a barter system or a uniform currency system.

Are you kidding? The topic is about adding gold to the game. Anything positive or negative about that is fair game in this thread.

"

strill wrote:

Huh? Wait, so you're referring to the person who said that gold should drop and players buy currency items from vendors? The system you're criticizing is no different from the current system since you can already exchange currency items with the vendors.

No, it's far different. Currently, you exchange with vendors for goods (and the recently-added services, at a bad rate). That system proposed that you get all orbs from vendors only, which isn't anything like what we have now. I'm bringing that back up because I believe it's an issue that would come into any gold-based system in this game. "Currency" items would be reduced to a service, and people would convert them to gold for trade value. I see this as an unnecessary step in the process that further removes the fun in trading.

"

strill wrote:

Please consider that all of the arguments you're making for why set exchange rates cannot exist apply to real life goods. Some people are lactose intolerant and could care less for milk. Some people love milk and would be willing to pay large sums of money for it if there were a shortage. The fact that people are willing to pay vastly different prices does not change the fact that the price of goods can and will stabilize if people are allowed to trade sufficiently. That's no different for a barter system.

I understand supply and demand. I also understand the stabilization will occur on a high level. I refuse to believe that prices will be set in stone and everyone will adhere to those prices. That is never the case in games of this type, especially when people are using items as currency. Unless prices are dictated by vendors, of course.

Regardless of economic theories, there still won't be gold in PoE.

"

WhiteBoy88 wrote:

"

Strill wrote:

Can we please keep things on topic? You're constantly over and over again bringing in things that are not intrinsic components of either a barter system or a uniform currency system.

Are you kidding? The topic is about adding gold to the game. Anything positive or negative about that is fair game in this thread.

And I'm telling you that adding gold to the game has nothing to do with price ceilings or price floors.

"

"

strill wrote:

Huh? Wait, so you're referring to the person who said that gold should drop and players buy currency items from vendors? The system you're criticizing is no different from the current system since you can already exchange currency items with the vendors.

No, it's far different. Currently, you exchange with vendors for goods (and the recently-added services, at a bad rate). That system proposed that you get all orbs from vendors only, which isn't anything like what we have now. I'm bringing that back up because I believe it's an issue that would come into any gold-based system in this game. "Currency" items would be reduced to a service, and people would convert them to gold for trade value. I see this as an unnecessary step in the process that further removes the fun in trading.

I want to know, why does it remove fun in trading? It's not like it detracts from haggling. It does make it harder to find a trade partner and forces you to sit for longer spamming chat though.

As for the specifics of a gold system, no it's not an issue that would come into any gold system. You assume that converting currency items to gold would be 100% efficient, which is unheard of in any rpg, mmo or otherwise. Typically, items are converted to gold at 20~50% efficiency.

"

"

strill wrote:

Please consider that all of the arguments you're making for why set exchange rates cannot exist apply to real life goods. Some people are lactose intolerant and could care less for milk. Some people love milk and would be willing to pay large sums of money for it if there were a shortage. The fact that people are willing to pay vastly different prices does not change the fact that the price of goods can and will stabilize if people are allowed to trade sufficiently. That's no different for a barter system.

I understand supply and demand. I also understand the stabilization will occur on a high level. I refuse to believe that prices will be set in stone and everyone will adhere to those prices. That is never the case in games of this type, especially when people are using items as currency. Unless prices are dictated by vendors, of course.

Then if stabilization will occur, why is it not possible to say that one orb will be worth more than another? There will always be people willing to pay more or less than the equilibrium price in any economy. That doesn't stop prices from stabilizing in a uniform currency system and there's no reason why the same wouldn't apply to a barter system as well.

"

Regardless of economic theories, there still won't be gold in PoE.

So you're accusing the devs of being irrational ideologues who do things regardless of thought or reason?