Undying Alchemist and Undying Incinerator
|
I feel I have to bump this as it has become a relevant issue for me again.
Undying Alchemists remain such an extreme outlier in this game in terms of damage dealt. I recently got fed up with them and decided to run 75% chaos resist; they still hit extremely hard in regards to every other source of chaos damage. It's absolutely ridiculous. You would think that with 75% chaos resist I would be able to survive these things, but they still kill me in seconds if I'm not playing extremely carefully. Compare this to every other mob type (cobras, vaal constructs, etc) and it's insane. Combine all this with their high chance of desyncing their bombs, the extremely difficult to see poison fields, and their ability to throw their bombs from way off screen... and this thing is a recipe for disaster. grr. Old post below, still mostly relevant.
Spoiler
I recently spoke to a developer about this in-game (I will not mention his name for his sake), however I feel I should make a thread about it.
The majority of the monsters in this game are fine. I have no problem with them. Some are harder than others, some have funky or difficult mechanics, it's great. However, there are a few outliers. Some are just really hard (piercing 3 way cobras in act 3) or some seem to do more damage than they should (explosive arrows in act 2 north of crossroads). I'm willing to accept these are just difficult mobs; they may be a bit stronger than most, but that's fine. However; personally, I feel two monsters are just broken. These mobs are the Undying Alchemist (Throws Poison Bombs) and Undying Incinerator (Throws Fire Bombs). Now, the Undying Alchemist is one thing. It throws chaos bombs, and I don't have that good of chaos resist (or, none at all, rather). If I get hit by one of these things, I do expect it to hurt. The problem with these guys lies in the fact that their chaos damage seems to be absurdly ramped compared to anything else. Viper Strikes, ancient constructs, and even cobras do nowhere near as much damage. Either the explosion or the degen will kill you in an instant, regardless of your HP pool. Regardless, like I said, I can blame this on my own lack of chaos resistance; it does make sense, though I do think they are slightly stronger than other chaos mobs and are a bit of an outlier in that respect. However... the Undying Incinerator is a completely different story. If this monster shows up in a map (or if I'm going through where they actually spawn) the situation completely changes. I have to either leave and not come back, or face deaths risking trying to kill them. I have over-maxed fire resistance (77%) and use Enfeeble, but these things still do fire bombs for all of my health (and energy shield) in an instant (over 2000 damage). The game actually does become annoying because, while end-game maps are fun, if these things decide to show up it's basically a failed (or extremely annoying) run. Any other fire damage (firestorm, golem, etc) is highly mitigated and manageable, but for some reason these things just DECIMATE anything they hit. This becomes a bigger problem for me because I play a summoner. Most characters can simply nuke them from afar and kill them BEFORE they do this nasty attack, or get in their face/behind them and kill them. As described by the dev, they are a "glass cannon monster." If the strategy of "kill them before they one shot you regardless of your resistance" works, that's great, but for me personally, it does not. While my zombies and skeletons wail on monsters nearby, work their way to them, or attempt to kill it... it will throw a fire bomb. Despite having zombies with 13,000 health and skeletons with around 5,000, they will all die in a single fire bomb. If I am lucky, a couple will be outside of the blast radius, however, in an instant, ALL of my minions are dead. Now, I understand AoEs are a problem for pets (and spell damage too sometimes) so I run Purity. Purity works great, and they can survive most things just fine, or long enough to kill the monster or get out of the way (golems). However, in this specific scenario (this ONE mob type) it will completely one shot all of my pets, with one fire bomb. Alchemists do it too, but the fact that they are chaos makes more sense at the very least. Both incinerators AND alchemists become an even larger problem when you get a map that is "Monsters fire xadditional projectiles." Normally, I wouldn't care and do fine, but every time I run this map mod, I run the chance of getting incinerators or alchemists. If ONE fire bomb kills me and my pets, a spread of multiple is absolutely ridiculous. If it's outside I might actually have a chance with or without the additional projectiles, but indoors... good luck. Minions die before they can get anywhere close (trying to kill mobs in skinny passages to reach him and/or stuck in doorways). I can try to summon skeletons on him, and that's usually the best strat, but eventually one fire bomb will kill me and/or all my minions. You could make the argument of "well then summoners just aren't good against this type of mob" but I shouldn't have to change my entire playstyle or skills because one random mob type decided to show up. I even maxed out fire resistance to attempt to handle it and it does me no good at all. Now, don't get me wrong. This isn't complaining about my minion's lack of survivability, or the difficulty of the game. The negative feedback goes directly at the Undying Incinerator (and Alchemist). I strongly believe these monster(s) to be far too strong, much stronger than they should be. Something is wrong when, even though you max out 77% fire resistance (the IDEAL counter to this monster type) it will still kill you in one hit. It stands out from every other mob to an extreme, in its own native area and in end-game maps. Thanks for reading. Last edited by Crevox#7597 on May 24, 2013, 7:33:06 PM
This thread has been automatically archived. Replies are disabled.
|
|
|
I have 4400 health and max fire resistance (75% only) and while they hurt alot, they arent impossible.
I actually encountered a much harder version of the Undying Incinerator the other day. The map had multiple projectiles and players are cursed with vulnerability. I would have never imagined that this would lead to some of the craziest damage output an enemy can have. Vulnerability increases the duration of damage over time effects. Once i got hit by an undying incinerator, i would burn for over 6000 damage, in about 2 seconds. How do i know? Because while i was burning incredibly fast, i was using all of my instant heal pot charges (which amounts to about 2000 extra health) and i still had to log out in order to save myself from certain death, since the dot was still gonna tick for another 2-3 seconds. These guys were undying incinerators on crack, but i actually like it that the game can spawn impossible enemies if the stars align (and with that i mean: if the mods align). |
|
|
It's just crazy that they are so much stronger than EVERYTHING else. I don't even remember the name or look of a lot of monsters, but these stick out like a sore thumb because of their ridiculous damage.
|
|
" The usual incinerators are a cakewalk if you have enough health, resistances, and also use enfeeble on them. I might have even been able to facetank the crack incinerators if i had used enfeeble on them, but i didnt get to do that since i just 1 shotted them. |
|
" I have like 1100 energy shield and 1k health, running 77% fire resistance and using enfeeble... they still kill me (and my friend, and all my minions) in one firebomb. Last edited by Crevox#7597 on Feb 15, 2013, 9:35:39 AM
|
|
|
How much HP/ES do you have ? If you can't get a reasonable amount of chaos resist from gear you can use an amethyst flask.
I don't think you are required to change your entire play-style, but you may be required to change minor things to deal with monsters who are difficult for your build. And that is probably working as intended. |
|
" See post above, and yeah, I agree with you. Certain mobs WILL be difficult for my build or cause problems, but I feel that the problem with these particular mobs runs deeper when they one shot me in addition to my minions (despite doing everything possible to survive against them, and doing fine against everything else). Last edited by Crevox#7597 on Feb 15, 2013, 9:38:34 AM
|
|
" Your energy shield and health values are nowhere near enough to solo everything on merciless comfortably. I had 3100 health when i was doing merciless solo, and even that wasnt really enough to do everything comfortably, so i grouped up for some parts of merciless. Dont whine about enemies being too hard when your gear is nowhere good enough to actually deal with these guys. With hybrid health/es, you can get much higher values than pure health characters and even my 4400 health isnt really that great. I could easily push that to over 5000 without changing much on my gear. If i were to additionally change some skillpassives, i could reach about 6000 health. Last edited by gh0un#3019 on Feb 15, 2013, 9:42:45 AM
|
|
" I can handle everything else perfectly fine. I really have no trouble with any monsters besides the couple few I mentioned in my first post (cobras hitting through my minions to me, and explosive arrows decimating my minions). I am willing to accept those as counters to my build or just being tough mobs, but I just can't in this situation. I do personally believe that 77% fire resist and 2200 effective HP should be enough to survive one hit from an enfeebled/temporal chained random monster (I run 2 curses) that does pure fire damage. These are completely different from every other mob in the game to such an extreme. It's a ridiculous amount of damage that completely ruins the fun of the randomness of the end-game maps if they decide to show up. Even if I manage to get more health or ES, at best I would BARELY survive the attack; which is still not reasonable. Last edited by Crevox#7597 on Feb 15, 2013, 9:44:18 AM
|
|
" Stop bringing up that 2200 health should be enough to tank anything in merciless, it just isnt. You can reach much higher values with a proper skillbuild, and insane amounts with good gear on top of that. You die because you dont have enough survivability, i dont die because i do have more survivability and im talking about incinerators in maps on crack, not about some measly incinerator in merciless. My CI mate has 5200 energy shield, and that isnt even that great, he could get much more if he wanted to, and even more if he had better gear. A hybrid templar mate of mine has over 6000 combined health and energy shield, well he has pretty good gear and the proper skillbuild, so thats to be expected. Your values are a joke and thats why you die, thats all there is to it. Last edited by gh0un#3019 on Feb 15, 2013, 9:47:03 AM
|
|


































