Secrets secrets secrets and more secrets

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LazarusQ wrote:

Where could I find that data ? I'd like to see it for myself.

The data being mentioned is the farm rate of ex (which is sourced somewhere in an above post). Compared to the amount available in the time frames allotted, naturally. In this case, 40+ ex 60 hours into a new league, which IIRC was invasion, one of the deadliest leagues (if not the hands down deadliest ever) in POE's history. Given the time frames, the situations and considerations, and assuming it wasn't a bot, someone had to be "artificially" generating exalts for there to be that many available for trade so early in the league.

EDIT: source


Now what you said about bots can be partially true in that it lessens the burden on an individual to farm when bots are flooding the economy with currency. I'm still not convinced an individual would somehow get 40ex after 60 hours even with the most efficient methods, given sleep and other such factors.

So IDK. Draw your own conclusions. It looks pretty cut and dry to me tho.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1zx8pa/currency_farming_statistics_from_100_lvl_69_maps/

Now what you said could be correct, and the economy is partially impacted by the bots that may or may not have been running rampant. It's hard to say in the case of bots. But bots have considerations also, I'd honestly expect any bot to have died very quickly during invasion. You simply can't script around that much bullshit :P

So IDK. Draw your own conclusions. It looks pretty cut and dry to me tho.

Thanks ! I'll have a look.
The thing about bots, though, is that they do not need to be high level, just very numerous. And that they don't even need to be bots: the big RMTers could use people (I seem to remember that it happened for WoW, but I might be making it up).

If you bought all the exalts available from sources outside the game ie. d2jsp & rmt sites and did some trading as well you'd have hundreds in 60 hours never mind 40.

You replied to my post as I was still editing it:P

In any case, yeah, a big conglomeration of RMTers might farm 40ex in VALUE. That's why I made all those 10+ points in that first big paragraph - you'd still have to come up with a way to get 40 ACTUAL exalts into one persons stash.

The claim in that post is 1.6exalts per hour, but that's not in actual exalts - that is in value. And that was when IIQ existed, which you can't get as a regular mod on gear anymore. He was running 116% or something IIQ, the real value would be less than half that. Also I'm pretty sure he did this in standard league, and he was using a fully equipped character to do it right off the bat. And he would still take more time to actually SELL all the stuff he got and trade it for ex. And that's where the biggest issue comes up again - you've got tons of "exalts" in value in your stash, but how does everyone have so many ex in value in their stashes but have no actual ex? How is every person's stash worth tons of ex but nobody ever recieved that ACTUAL exalt drop?

So put all the considerations together and decide for yourself how many real exalts today that equates to for an individual in 60 hours. My random off-head estimate? I'd say if this guy was farming today in a freshly started invasion league, he wouldn't have any ex at all in his stash after 3 days. Zero. Several weeks into one of today's leagues? Maybe an exalt per hour VALUE, but then again you'd have to liquidate that all into ex - where is he buying that all from? It didn't drop for him, that's for sure.

IDK. Just not buying it for me. You see it the way you see it, though.

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RandallPOE wrote:

If you bought all the exalts available from sources outside the game ie. d2jsp & rmt sites and did some trading as well you'd have hundreds in 60 hours never mind 40.

Not unless you were botting yourself. This guy farmed 1.6ex per hour (value, not actual ex), with 100+ IIQ, on an established character. Probably the most well geared efficient build you can come up with at those times running the most efficient routes known. And then he'd still have to actually liquidate all that before he could make a 40ex purchase.

Today, IIQ doesn't exist anymore, 60 hours into a new league (real time mind you, not in-game time) with tons of unknown mechanics is mostly leveling and gearing/building for most people, and even for a streamer who took the entire week off work and only stopped to get minimal sleep, you'd still not be farming exalts fast enough to outpace the time you lost leveling and gearing up to farm in the first two days.

You can disagree, but I think it's pretty unreasonable to believe otherwise all things considered. You're either botting, or you're generating exalts through a currently unknown method.

EDIT: Yeah actually, maybe with d2jsp shenanigans it might be possible. You'd have to ask the buyer if that's what he did, I'm pretty sure it is not, because there's already been a lot of speculation about this.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

You replied to my post as I was still editing it:P

In any case, yeah, a big conglomeration of RMTers might farm 40ex in VALUE. That's why I made all those 10+ points in that first big paragraph - you'd still have to come up with a way to get 40 ACTUAL exalts into one persons stash.

Yeah, I did mean actual exalts. They don't drop more often at high levels with respect to other items, as far as I know, although items in general drop more. So a horde of little slaves/bots could get quite a few exalts in not so much time while still in Normal.
But I'm speculating.
There is one thing we could do, though: there is a league starting soon. We could have a look at RMT sites and see how their stock grow, if that info is available (it might not be, though).

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LazarusQ wrote:

They are not mutually exclusive, you're welcome to do both.
Do you really think I am being unreasonable ? People here are basically accusing GGG of at least intentionally lying to us, possibly scamming us. Should we not base something like this on a little more than a few unlucky map runs and a "corporations are evil" caricature ?

Perhaps I am taking this too seriously.

Those "few" map runs were around 500 maps total (before and after nerf).

Videos with timestamps where Chris admits that they change droprates all the time:

https://youtu.be/0e7OKbkXruk?list=PL4aZrsY9M5qA3-seudJZlG4I1NsUHDGxg&t=2202
https://youtu.be/0e7OKbkXruk?list=PL4aZrsY9M5qA3-seudJZlG4I1NsUHDGxg&t=2566

You are like a lawyer trying to defend his client although he already admitted committing the crime.

Should try that, I probably won't remember by the time the league starts. I'll be too busy looking at all the new stuff.

Main thing is, when you watch all these streamers play, and you spend all those hours in the game. And you see your friends farming all the time and you're always in groups doing maps and so forth. How many exalts have you actually seen drop? For anyone?

But then you hear people talking about their wealth in game and they're like "yeah my stash probably has about 20ex value right now" or other such claim. But you've been in POE that long and never seen even a single exalt drop. Where do they come from?

I know from my personal experience, I've watched a lot of POE streamers and I've played ... idk, not a great deal, but enough to roll many mid-high level characters, have them die in a map, and then reroll them several times in all but 1 or 2 leagues, since beta. I've only ever seen an exalt drop once. I remember it specifically because it was such an astronomical rarity. But I have traded many exalts from and then back to other people... and I'm not sure where those exalts are coming from. It just doesn't seem to add up to me.

Oh and also to set that earlier comment straight - I don't think GGG is necessarily lying to us about anything - they haven't ruled out other methods of generating exalts AFAIK. The OP is taking a "EVIL GGG OMG" mentality. I'm just trying to follow the money and see where it leads, though to be perfectly honest I have no intention of following through with that kind of undertaking. It's just amusing speculation for me. If anything, I'm just trying to set the curiosity in motion and see if it leads anyone anywhere interesting.

I also don't like how some people are immediately discrediting the OP based on his attitude towards things. I mean the tinfoil hat mentality aside, much of what he says can be and may probably actually be true. If anyone here doubts the shadowy stuff going on in the backgrounds, there's plenty of people getting caught doing stuff like this all the time. You'd have to be totally blind not to see it. I'm not accusing anyone specific, but it definitely happens often all throughout every corner of our lives - most of the time those people don't get caught if they're doing it right.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Should try that, I probably won't remember by the time the league starts. I'll be too busy looking at all the new stuff.

Main thing is, when you watch all these streamers play, and you spend all those hours in the game. And you see your friends farming all the time and you're always in groups doing maps and so forth. How many exalts have you actually seen drop? For anyone?

But then you hear people talking about their wealth in game and they're like "yeah my stash probably has about 20ex value right now" or other such claim. But you've been in POE that long and never seen even a single exalt drop. Where do they come from?

I know from my personal experience, I've watched a lot of POE streamers and I've played ... idk, not a great deal, but enough to roll many mid-high level characters, have them die in a map, and then reroll them several times in all but 1 or 2 leagues, since beta. I've only ever seen an exalt drop once. I remember it specifically because it was such an astronomical rarity. But I have traded many exalts from and then back to other people... and I'm not sure where those exalts are coming from. It just doesn't seem to add up to me.

That's true, they are very rare, but there are more than enough players to make up for that. I have played for a bit more than 1700 hours. I have seen 6 or 7 exalts drop. And 4 Albino Rhoa Feathers (which are even rarer). That's not enough data for an average, but if I do it anyway, that's about 1 every 300 hours for me. Which is one for every 300 people who play for one hour. Those numbers get astronomical really fast if you think of the whole playerbase.
And ultimately, I think that is the source of a lot of confusion and counterintuitive situations: the game is balanced around all of the players, not just one. And then the most ruthless buisnessmen win.

Edit: stop editing so fast, I don't have time to catch up !

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Oh and also to set that earlier comment straight - I don't think GGG is necessarily lying to us about anything - they haven't ruled out other methods of generating exalts AFAIK. The OP is taking a "EVIL GGG OMG" mentality. I'm just trying to follow the money and see where it leads, though to be perfectly honest I have no intention of following through with that kind of undertaking. It's just amusing speculation for me. If anything, I'm just trying to set the curiosity in motion and see if it leads anyone anywhere interesting.

I also don't like how some people are immediately discrediting the OP based on his attitude towards things. I mean the tinfoil hat mentality aside, much of what he says can be and may probably actually be true. If anyone here doubts the shadowy stuff going on in the backgrounds, there's plenty of people getting caught doing stuff like this all the time. You'd have to be totally blind not to see it. I'm not accusing anyone specific, but it definitely happens often all throughout every corner of our lives - most of the time those people don't get caught if they're doing it right.

I'm not against curiosity, quite the oposite, I'm all for it (and it's actually my job). My issue is more the fact that everything that I have seen so far was based on anecdotal evidence. The question is well posed, it deserves to be answered, and there is a proper way to do it. The OP has not done anything in that direction. Pure speculation is worse than unconstructive.
Now, with some real data, we could get somewhere !

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LazarusQ wrote:

That's true, they are very rare, but there are more than enough players to make up for that. I have played for a bit more than 1700 hours. I have seen 6 or 7 exalts drop. And 4 Albino Rhoa Feathers (which are even rarer). That's not enough data for an average, but if I do it anyway, that's about 1 every 300 hours for me. Which is one for every 300 people who play for one hour. Those numbers get astronomical really fast if you think of the whole playerbase.
And ultimately, I think that is the source of a lot of confusion and counterintuitive situations: the game is balanced around all of the players, not just one. And then the most ruthless buisnessmen win.

How many man-hours of farming do you think occurs in those 60 hours of gameplay though? The average player is just getting into maps after 60 real hours, if they're working at a fast pace and don't have much else going on in their spare time. For the average player they won't have ANY exalts after 60 hours, and probably haven't even done much real farming yet. For streamers and super hardcore veterans, yeah they are probably mapping, but they are the minority, not the casual masses. For botters/rmters... well, we only have speculation. But even they have to level, and even they have to have actual exalts for sale somewhere in the economy at 60 hours if they're going to purchase them to re-trade them out - and almost none of those came from normal players which make up the vast majority of the game. So where did they come from?